Talk:National Reorganization Process

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[edit] Move

Shouldn't we move Dirty War here??? Is almost the same thing and both are inextricably related.

If nobody comments, I'll merge them together and then move in 2-3 days...

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 22:17, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

It may even be better to merge this article to Dirty War, was the events carried out by the junta are known in the English-speaking world as the Dirty War. Alr 18:57, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

See my comments at Talk:Dirty War. The Dirty War was specifically the repression of insurgency and its associated violations of human rights (plus the response by the insurgent groups). The Proceso was the whole government. The Dirty War is considered by some to have started before the Proceso (with the AAA et al), and it should be treated like that. This article about the Proceso should be expanded with info about censorship of the media, the Plan Cóndor, etc. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 21:04, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

No official investigation backs the 30,000 number, so I made the pertinent ammendments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by YoungSpinoza (talk • contribs)

Yes, the dirty war could be merged with this. Pablo, if some or many (I despise indefinite articles) historians consider the dirty war to have started before, then you should state it as such a "consideration" or hypothesis, not a fact ("are considered to have continued" instead of "continued"). Regarding, Lopez Rega, a link should be included to where it says he was (instead of he was suspected of) being a member of P2, and it should be something else than gelli's declarations to be a friend of peron. I made some changes, justification is in the history log. YoungSpinoza 16:04, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

It could by no means be merged with the Dirty War article. The Operativo Independencia started well before the PRN, during Isabel Perón's mandate; the military government and the military repression of insurgence were certainly linked, but quite distinct.
López Rega's name was found in the Propaganda Due member lists found by the police in Licio Gelli's house in 1981, right next to Lastiri, Vignes and Massera. You can check it here. Taragüí @ 16:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Ok, then. Regarding the conadep issue. There was not misrepresentation, it was a literal transcription of the english version of the nunca mas document. By the way, why did you revert the link to the spanish version if there's an enlish one?. YoungSpinoza 18:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
NO MERGE. "Proceso de Reorganizacion Nacional" is propaganda term. It's a bit like if you called Nazy Germany the "Third Reich", which was to last a thousand years. Tazmaniacs

I will remove the tag as there is no more discussion about this. FedericoEcon 20:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tag?

Why the cleanup tag? --Guinnog 16:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking it down; if you want to reinsert it, please say here what you think neds cleaned up to assist other editors. Thanks. --Guinnog 14:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename?

This page should really be moved to National Reorganization Process (as per WP:UE). Its a direct, literal translation and anyway we have to clarify the Spanish original version all the time. Shall I? —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 23:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I kind of like the name, but you have a great point. Go ahead. Sebastian Kessel Talk 05:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to History of Argentina from 1976 to 1983

I propose this, because I understand that Dirty War has been reserved to the human rights violations of the junta, while this article is supposed to include economic policies — of which much more can be said, of course. Furthermore, if you check the History of Argentina article, you'll see that this time-period is actually under the header "Dirty War". Thus, this renaming would help the "History of Argentina" article get more coherent. Tazmaniacs 12:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The Process was the official name of the military government, and thus the name of the Article. I believe the article centres in the government itself, and does not include other aspects of the history of the country during that time that could include Scientific achievements, culture events and other topics. Same thing for Generation of '80; it describes a lot of a par of decades in Argentine history, but is centered around a special topic. Mariano(t/c) 12:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Few months later, but Internet is another time-dimension... I'd like to recall Wikipedia:Naming conflict guidelines here:
"Descriptive names - Choose a descriptive name for an article that does not carry POV implications. For instance, what do we call the controversy over Qur'an handling at Guantanamo Bay? The article is located at Qur'an desecration controversy of 2005. Note that the title makes no statement about who is the (more) guilty party: it does not "give away" that conclusion; in fact the article itself draws no conclusion. Similarly, the article on the September 11, 2001 attacks does not assign responsibility for the attacks in the article name."
As "Dirty War", for that matter, we can't say that National Reorganization Process is NPOV. It is the name used by the junta itself, and "reorganizing" means that Argentina was dis- or badly organized. The assassination of 30.000 persons is hardly what I call "reorganization." I would rather call it something like "destructuralization of society," sort of a reference to the sociological concept of anomia.
The second reason is not concerned by NPOV, but by article coherence and navigation on Wikipedia. Currently, this article & Dirty War sort of overlap, although they are not exactly the same. I understand that "Dirty War" is in fact a sub-article of NRP, as NRP englobes the Dirty War & economic policies — of course, this is not 100% correct, as demonstrated by controversies concerning when exactly did the so-called Dirty War started, in particular concerning Isabel Peron's rule.
Now, I hear your argument concerning cultural aspects, etc. But, precisely, History of Argentina between 1973 and 1976 could easily include a section on cultural events, with a resume of what is relevant and maybe a "main article: Cultural history of Argentina" or sgth like that. Another NPOV title for this article could be Government of Argentina from 1973 to 1976, but that's a weasel word IMO and is hundreds light-years from the popular designation of this period as the junta.
I hope you folks interested by the subject will leave a comment here when you have some time, I really think something should be done about this title - and don't forget: silence is approval! I will make now a similar request on "Talk:Dirty War". Tazmaniacs 18:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Background

I changed the sentence "He advocated a fascist policy dubbed Peronism" for "He advocated a new policy dubbed Peronism". I think that is very imprudent calling the Peronism a fascist policy. That assuption would need a serious discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrspokito (talk • contribs) 23:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No real privatization

The article claims that there was privatization, during this period.Nonsense.Infact, with the only exception of Pinochet, all military rulers in South America were state's companies friends.There was an opening of foreign trade, but with unreal exchange and big inflation.Telecomunnications, oil were state's monoplies during all this period in Argentina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.9.121.178 (talk) 22:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)