Talk:National Motorists Association
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This article looks like it was written by a corporate spokesman.
- It's better than it used to be, but it can still use work. Even though its owner has noble thoughts, for the sake of accuracy, the article needs to make it abundantly clear that the NMA is a for-profit corporation. This fact has been glossed over and obscured in prior revisions.
- Nova SS (talk) 03:38, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
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- Official NMA Response
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- There seems to be a semantics issue related to terms related to corporate status and member versus customer when describing the status of the people who financially support the NMA. Also of concern is the implication that the NMA may not have really had much influence on the repeal of the 55 MPH National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL).
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- There are multiple kinds of corporations and they fall into two broad groups; taxable and tax exempt. The terms “for profit” or “non profit” are informal labels that have been applied to these two categories, more often to confuse than to clarify. There are “taxable” (for profit) corporations that have never made profit. For example the NMA has never made a profit in 27 years of operation. There are tax exempt corporations, public and private, that make substantial profits year after year. (I am defining profit as taking in more income than is being used to fund the activities and purposes of the corporation.)
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- As noted, the NMA was founded as a standard “C” corporation (taxable) because of it’s political intentions. A tax exempt corporation (or foundation) is quite limited in it’s ability to engage in political activities. It is highly unlikely that a public policy oriented organization would ever sustain a meaningful trend of profitability. Additional funds are more likely to be invested in more staff, public relations, lobbying, research, and other functions that further the organization’s goals. Certainly it’s possible for principals in any corporation setting; taxable or tax exempt, to enrich themselves with outsized salaries and benefits and thereby not show a “profit.” However, with an annual payroll expense, for five full time employees, three part time employees, and contract workers, of approximately $200,000 I don’t see much in the way of undeserved enrichment at the NMA.
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- “Customers” typically pay a company for tangible products or services. NMA members pay dues and make contributions for which there is very little tangible return. They do so to support our efforts to pursue public policies that they support. Yes, some are customers for books or other items that we sell, but our members consider themselves as members, we consider them as members and they voluntarily support the NMA with their dues and donations. If they don’t like what we are doing or advocating they are free to cease their support. This isn’t like a labor union (tax exempt) where someone is forced to pay dues whether or not they support the organization’s policies.
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- I can unequivocally state that the NMA was the leading and principal advocate for the repeal of the 55 MPH NMSL, including the 1987 modification that allowed 65 MPH on Interstate Highways and so-called “look-alikes.” It was the NMA that testified at Congressional hearings, lobbied Members of Congress and their staff, built grass roots support, and persuaded other organizations to support the effort. I and other NMA members were there, walking the halls, funding the lobbying campaign, generating publicity, and engaging the media. We were opposed by the insurance industry, AAA, safety organizations, the major trucking firms, and enforcement groups. We also had support from independent truckers (OOIDA) motorcycle organizations, and some states. My knowledge is first hand and spans over two decades and I know exactly what transpired and how events unfolded. Consequently, I find it troublesome when someone whose name I don’t know implies that the NMA, at most, might have had some sort of peripheral role in the repeal of the 55 MPH NMSL. If you have evidence that I am exaggerating the NMA’s role in repealing the 55 MPH NMSL I would be happy to review it and respond. If no such evidence exists then you are expressing a personal opinion and I don’t believe an unfounded personal opinion should define our organization’s achievements in a reference document.
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- Jim Baxter, President National Motorists Association —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.200.134 (talk) 19:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Since a key purpose of for-profit corporations is to enrich shareholders, skepticism of any claimed altruism is appropriate for a firm organized as a for-profit.
- If you have nothing to hide, prove it and publicly release all your tax records. Don't hide behind that foundation where you took records offline.
- If you are unwilling to share, the presumption must be that you are a no different than other for-profit corporations.
- As for the peripheral involvement issue, find us better sources (other than content generated by you) that clarifies your role with speed limit issues.
- Nova SS (talk) 20:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
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- We're willing to publish the NMA tax filings, but we don't have an electronic copy available or any desire to create one. However, if you send your name and address to awq@motorists.org, we will immediately mail you out a hard copy of the latest filing. Once you receive it, feel free to convert it to electronic format and publish it anywhere you want, including the NMA wikipedia page. The same goes for anyone reading this page who would like a copy.
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- Aaron Quinn
- NMA Staff
- awq@motorists.org
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- P.S. Note that I've signed my real name and direct email address. I hope the same courtesy will be extended to us in any further discussions/edits. Posting under an anonymous username fails to give readers the opportunity to evaluate any personal, professional, or financial bias that may be in play.
- Motorists (talk) 18:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] Conflict of interest
I have noted that this article is representing a biased viewpoint thanks to a conflict of interest of a recent editor. User:Motorists, an employee of the corporation about which this article was written, is whitewashing the article.
The NMA is a for-profit, closely-held organization despite the connotation suggested by the use of Association in the name. As such, it is appropriate to provide clarification of the corporation's true for-profit status in the opening.
Nova SS (talk) 19:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Need better documentation of these claimed "other business" items
I moved this section to this discuss page because it is not clear if the following represents real events or offers or if it's just propaganda/advertising.
- Other business
- In the past, the NMA has organized "civil obedience days" where customers actually drove at the posted speed limit, although there is no known evidence that this had enough participants to cause any significant traffic impacts.
- It has also issued a "Highway Robbery Award" to entities that it claims have abused motorists. Most recently, the organization has issued a $10,000 challenge to communities that plan on installing traffic signal enforcement cameras under the belief that simple traffic engineering changes are more effective than cameras.[1]
- The NMA operates a speedtrap registry and a roadblock registry where people can post the locations of known speed traps and road blocks.
- The NMA, in cooperation with GetMADD.com, is offering a $20,000 reward to anyone who can verify the claims of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) regarding the number of people killed by drunk drivers.
