Talk:National Anthem of Russia

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Will this transliteration be a sentence based on what system? --kahusi - (Talk) 03:16, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Can't say I understood the question that well, but Russian transliteration guidelines are outlined in this article. Current anthem transliteration is different and probably should be changed as it is of little use to English speakers.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 16:05, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)

Especially for you, Ёжик: I know two real Latin alphabets for Russian. The first (which was developed in USSR and could be used) is described here: [1], and the second — more beautiful and useful — here : [2]. So, try to understand, that THIS variant can never be considered as transcription as transliteration. It's unreadable.

Good luck.

The system for transliterating Russian text used in English Wikipedia is BGN/PCGN (a slightly modified version of which is described in the Transliteration of Russian into English article; it is to be used mostly for geographical and personal names when no commonly used English variant is available). The two systems you are referring to serve completely different purposes—one seems to be a "beautiful" system of using Latin scripts to render Cyrillics; the other is a system of transliteration that does not specifically target English speakers. Both of those systems have merits, but not when it is necessary to transliterate a Russian text in such a way as for it to be readable for English speakers; furthermore, none of those two systems is widely used or even recognizable. For that purpose, BGN/PCGN fits the bill perfectly.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 14:12, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Hymn/Anthem 2 God save the queen? 3 Awesome 4 Errata 5 Derzhava 6 Women's headgear 7 Minor grammar problem 8 People vowing not to stand up for the Anthem 9 Music 10 Translation? 11 Return to Soviet era? 11.1 Well, which is best then?! 12 Minor translation recommendation

[edit] Hymn/Anthem

ГИМН is not a geographical or personal name or a part of the song; it's just an Anthem in Russian and official name of this song is as unimaginable as National Anthem of Russia (btw, Russian Federation and Russia are synonyms according to 1993 Russian Constitution). It's just improper to transliterate the Russian word anthem then combine it with English name of the country and present the result as if it's some kind of original name. I'm moving the page according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions. DmitryKo 18:57, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As far as Wikipedia conventions go, you are absulutely right. I just wanted to note that there is an English word "hymn" as well (so it's not merely a bad transliteration), but it is mostly used to described religious hymns. I do not know for sure if a national anthem can be called a "hymn", but I would not exclude this possibility. Perhaps a native English speaker could clarify it for us, because the anthems of some other countries/subdivisions are also titled "hymns", and should probably be moved as well.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 19:09, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

In my honest opinion, the word "hymn" works -- it does not necessarily infer a religious hymn, it can also be of the religious sort, as well. Honestly, I can't read Russian, but I do believe Hymn of the Russian Federation would work much better than "National Anthem of Russia." Has the Russian government said anything on this matter? No press reports or anything like that? Or perhaps a neutral: Anthem of the Russian Federation. Sounds a bit more prestigious that way, and yet you don't lose your, well, "meaning." -- Tlaktan 03:44, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

In Russian, the words "hymn" and "anthem" are not distinguished; both are translated as "гимн" (transliterated as "gimn", which sounds a lot like "hymn"). If you look at the definition of the word "hymn", however, you'll see that it has very little to do with national anthems—it is first and foremost used to describe hymns (and anthems) of religious nature.

"Anthem of Russian Federation" (as opposed to "National Anthem") may work fine (and, as a matter of fact, is a more exact translation of "Гимн Российской Федерации"), but I do not really see the benefit of using one variant over another. This is a national anthem, after all, so what would be the point of dropping the "national" part?—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 16:22, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Aesthetic purposes, perhaps? --- Tlaktan 03:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

The best way to check is to see official law. I will try to check later today, but I have a final to worry about. Zscout370 (talk) 11:08, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

The official law says "Государственный гимн Российской Федерации" (I should know as I added the text of the law to Wikisource myself. This can be translated either as "State Anthem of the Russian Federation" or as "National Anthem of the Russian Federation". Taking the aesthetic purposes into consideration and blending them with the spirit of the original, "National Anthem" is the way to go.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 14:24, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

I think some people call it the Hymn of the RF because most people call the Soviet Anthem "Hymn of the Soviet Union." As mentioned earlier, Gimn sounds very close to hymn. However, we could keep Hymn of the RF as the "Unofficial title," which can be introduced later in the article. Zscout370 (talk) 14:58, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Considering what was said above about the word "hymn", I think "Hymn of the Soviet Union" sounds really unhealthy :) Anyway, it's your call. English is my second language, and yours first. If using the word "hymn" to describe "national anthem" sounds OK to you, so be it.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 15:21, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

While religious songs are called hymnals, but we sometimes call national anthems hymns, like the Olympic Hymn. For this article, gimn sounds very close to hymn, so we can move it to "Hymn of the Russian Federation." However, what we can mention that this article is the national anthem of Russia. The article about the USSR anthem also mentions "Hymn of the Soviet Union" as an alternate title. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 04:54, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I do hope that you know what you are talking about, but I am still not comfortable with calling a national anthem "hymn". The article on Olympic Hymn is, by the way, located at Olympic Anthem, although the article mentions that it is an "informal name". Hopefully, peer review will sort this out.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 03:54, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Same here. It can always be moved back, and I will not move it back here if consensus is against me. However, I do wish to note that American broadcastor NBC uses both Hymn and Anthem interchangably. This was brought up when Russian was "owning" everyone in the figure skating events. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 04:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that National Anthem of Russia is the best name and the one now preferred by official sources. See the official page on Putin's website, for instance. It's also listed on the G8 summit site as "Russia's national anthem"[3]; I'd assume the information came directly from the government. I believe that Hymn of the Russian Federation is an alternate translation that should be included. --Dhartung | Talk 20:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] God save the queen?

I am aware that the melody to God Save the Queen was indeed used, however was the anthem simply transplanted from Britain in its entirety? 24.10.139.96 07:32, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

The music stayed the same, but the lyrics changed. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:26, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Except that it was "God Save the King" at the time. Queen Anne died in 1714, and the next Queen Regnant was Victoria who acceded in 1837. JackofOz 05:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awesome

This is a great national anthem. I'm not Russian but I'm feeling patriotic! -Taco325i 03:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Good, I am glad. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It says: 'Translated into Russian by Arkadiy Yakovlevich Kots in 1902, the song was used as the anthem of the newly created Union of Soviet Socialist Republics from 1918 until 1944'. The Soviet Union, though, was only established in 1922!

The Soviet government had it from 1918 until 1944, but you are correct on that. I have sources that say from 1918 until replaced by the all familiar tune we know and love. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 06:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Errata

1) Stalin didn't ask Mikhalkov to write the Hymn. 2) El Registan wasn't Georgian, rather an Armenian.

Vladimir Przyjalkowski.

[edit] Derzhava

Derzhava is not translated a state.Its compared to 'power' as in superpower. I think the literal translation,would be empire or dominion.

[edit] Women's headgear

When the anthem is played, all headgear must be removed

Does this apply to only men, or women too? —Michael Z. 2006-07-24 03:42 Z

Both. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 03:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor grammar problem

.... and in rich in resources... This does not look right. The first "in" should not be there, so I'm deleting it.

Go ahead. If you see any more grammar issues, just go ahead and fix it; you don't need to tell us :) User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 07:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] People vowing not to stand up for the Anthem

I have found at People's Daily in Chinese that some people disagreeing the once-Soviet melody have vowed not to stand up for the Russian Anthem used now. As I cannot readily find this kind of report in English (I cannot read Russian), I am wondering if there is any definite penalty for willfully failing to stand up for the Anthem. It will be much better to get a reliable English newsreport about this.--Jusjih 17:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This English page has further reported the controversies re-adopting the once-Soviet melody. It says about some people vowing not to stand up for the Anthem.--Jusjih 17:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm one of these people, and I roam free so far:) There's no punishment for this (probably, not yet). MaxSem 19:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The most I have seen, penalty wise, for the anthem in any situation is a public scolding of the Russian football team by Putin and that is it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 20:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The Jamestown Foundation has an article here, so I, not a Russian, have used its external link to add people vowing not to stand up for the anthem. I plan to use the People's Daily report for Chinese Wikipedia.--Jusjih 14:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Fine with me, since I have also seen reports that people refuse to either stand up for the anthem or sing the lyrics for it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 22:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music

Is there an English hymn sung to this music? I know the tune. Is there something really similar I could be confusing it with? Njál 01:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

There is not an English hymn that I can think of, but here are two guess: the English recording by Paul Robeson or the song Go West by the Pet Shop Boys. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation?

Anyone else think the translation is not very good? It seems overly mechanical and certainly not at all poetic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 160.39.59.83 (talk) 19:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Return to Soviet era?

Now how the hell can a mere song return Russia to the Soviet era? QZXA2 23:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

That is how some of the opposition feels, plus, in other former Soviet republics, symbols have been changed to go back to the Soviet-era flags, arms or anthems. It is that feeling of longing back to the Soviet era and many of those who supported the anthem were either communists or prefered the strong, forceful, Soviet anthem than the calm, quiet nature of the Patriotic Song. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 01:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Well, which is best then?!

[edit] Minor translation recommendation

I noticed that both Soviet and Russian versions of the chorus lyrics started with Славься, Отечество наше свободное. I have read that decision for the line to be carried to the Russian anthem was delibrate-- No source to support, however-- so I wonder if the current translation of that line Be glorious, our free Fatherland should change to the more well-known Soviet version of Sing to the Motherland, home of the free? --Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 02:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)