Talk:Natalie Maines

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Natalie Maines article.
Article policies
Good article Natalie Maines has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
June 9, 2007 Good article nominee Listed

Contents

[edit] Muslim Fundamentalist

"She is married to Muslim fundamentalist actor Adrian Pasdar; they have two children, Jackson Slade Pasdar (born March 15, 2001) and Beckett Finn Pasdar (born July 14, 2004). She has also referred to herself as "Natalie Pasdar". The family has homes in Los Angeles and Austin, TX."

Is from a vandal? I can't find any information suggesting that Adrian Pasdar is a fundamentalist musilum.

Vandalism. Adrian is Catholic. Dylan Slade 23:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Pasdar's religion is, essentially, an irrelevant detail to this particular article, qualifying as info creep. The text has been removed for quite awhile now. ZueJay (talk) 03:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] whistle range?

what song does she a hit a whistle note in?

Whoever added her please give proof. Otherwise within time, this artictle will be deleted from the category. Myke 05:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
NO. I've been plunking away at a Martie Maguire page when I've the time for the last 2 months, watching untold videos of the Dixie Chicks, and (I'm a professional singer)--while Natalie is great and a powerhouse, she could never touch that range. There's only a handful of American singers who can- Lisa Fischer backing the Stones comes to mind. When Natalie can hit the notes you find on this video at 2:58-- let me KNOW! [1] --leahtwosaints (talk) 18:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Had to remove this bit

I had to remove this bit from the article. While I appreciate the sentiment, and may believe it to be true at least in part, it asserts facts that have not or can not be verified.

It was later revealed that Clear Channel Communications, a Texas-based media corporation controlling over 1,200 stations in the U.S., had promoted the demonstration and much of the backlash. Clear Channel was closely tied to George Bush; one of its leaders had bought the Texas Rangers from then-Governor Bush, and others had used positions on the University of Texas Investment Management Company to invest heavily in Republican or Bush-involved enterprises.

The topic of the "controversy" is detailed in the main Dixie Chicks article. Many Bothans died to whittle the information down to the NPOV-acceptable version, and I'd hate to repeat that sacrifice here. --Robertb-dc 18:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: Actually Clear Channel and its role is not even mentioned in the Dixie Chicks article. This was reported in the New York Times by Dr. Paul Krugman and has not been refuted -- at least not anywhere that I have seen. This strikes me as a significant part of the story, and not to air it seems like censorship. Lots of other issues appear in Wiki articles that have not been "proven." (This paragraph was added: 21:12, 30 June 2006 by 24.207.162.191)

Actually, there is record of discussion of Clear Channel's role in boycotting the Dixie Chicks if you go to: Multimedia Record of the DXC click video, and scroll down till you find the Howard Stern interview with the Chicks. (There may be an easier way to access the interview. Probably it's broken down into sections on You Tube).. but not only do they discuss Clear Channel explicitly with Stern, but He begins to tell them of a lawsuit of his own and how gratifying the results should be. That should help nail down Clear Channel, I hope. In addition, anybody working on ANY page about the Dixie Chicks should take a look at the IMMENSE first-hand treasure trove of possibly every TV appearance, interview, concert, etc that they've ever done since the band formed. --leahtwosaints (talk) 05:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
However, an interview of the Dixie Chicks in which they discuss their opinions on the causes of the radio boycott just doesn't seem like a source that could be used in that context. It's a source for "The Dixie Chicks believe that Clear Channel orchestrated a radio boycott", but not for "Clear Channel orchestrated a radio boycott". Incidentally, I was in Amarillo last month and heard "Wide Open Spaces" in a crowded arena full of horsemen. Here is a video (just uploaded, may not be processed yet) showing the utter chaos that completely failed to ensue. :) --Robertb-dc (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Outdated link

Link after line beginning "On May 21, 2006" has an outdated link and was removed. Please add updated link. Zchris87v 07:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

-fixed 64.229.92.112 03:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LBGT Activist?

Hi, I'm just wondering on what basis she's listed as an LGBT Activist? I don't see any reference to this anywhere. 24.82.90.239 08:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

All three Dixie Chicks, especially Natalie, have been very vocal in their support of the gay community. In 2004 "I Believe in Love" was included on "Love Rocks", a benefit CD for the Human Rights Campaign. Track Listing. They have also been interviewed in the LGBT press, such as in this article and this piece in the popular LGBT magazine The Advocate. Maybe I should add all 3 of them to the category? Is this enough to qualify?

Lady6String 22:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know what criteria is used for the list, but the addition seems reasonable to me. Maybe we should add Martie and Emily to the list as well, since it is the whole band that has taken part. 24.82.90.239 05:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Done! Lady6String 22:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Info added to article; however, might be more appropriate to add to Dixie Chicks instead because the cited materials have Maines talking as part of the band.
Have removed Category:LGBT rights activists as the nature of 'activist' versus 'supporter' is being discussed at cat. ZueJay (talk) 03:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Info removed from this article -- more appropriate in Dixie Chicks article. Text and sources are residing in my personal sandbox until move can be made. ZueJay (talk) 17:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Found another source here where Maines chats on her own - reconsidering. If anyone wants to jump in and help sort this out, feel free! ZueJay (talk) 04:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Excellent pick on the picture. Natalie Maines is gorgeous!! Ericster08 06:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture has since been removed, probably for licensing reasons. ZueJay (talk) 23:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination

Looks like you have the basis of a good article here, but before a reviewer visits I suggest you pad out the lead of the article - see WP:LEAD. One sentence is not an adequate summation of an article as lengthy as this. Hope that helps. --kingboyk 17:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Noted. Is that any better? I find POV-less phrases sometimes dificult to achieve. ZueJay (talk) 17:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
That's a bit better, yes. Probably enough for GA, not enough for FA. --kingboyk 17:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
GA is what I'm looking for for now on this article. There are things missing that seem to be "common knowledge" but which I have not been able to track to reputable sources such as whether or not she graduated HS early, and when she first began to sing and what song(s)... ZueJay (talk) 18:28, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the paragraphs are too short - making it look a magazine trivia article. Bring them together in paragraphs that link. andreasegde 18:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

[edit] Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of April 26, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?:
  • "Dixie Chicks Officiial Website." (typo in ref 8)
  • "Although her hometown may not want to acknowledge it, Maines gives credit to '...Lubbock for who I became.' - Quotation at end makes this hard to read. It would be better as an indirect quotation. Also, the first phrase is Maines' POV and should be acknowledged as such.
  • Lead section needs to be expanded to properly summarize all topics in the article. See WP:LEAD
  • Layout needs tweaking. There should really be a separate section for accolades and awards rather than it being included in the last section.
  • The "Public statements and controversy" section should have a named subsection for the marijuana debate, and be introduced by a short summary.
  • Use of "words to avoid" See WP:WTA. Consider replacements in brackets
    • "...and claims that the doctored photo..." (argues that)
    • "...he noted she usually needed to vent a little steam..." (said that)
    • "However, many people, including awards host..." ("Other people, including...")
    • "However, Keith continues to refuse..." ("As of April 2007, Keith...")
    • "However, the Dixie Chicks began..." ("The Dixie...")
    • "Although her hometown may not want to acknowledge it..." (actually, I think this whole phrase is best removed because of style problems)
    • "scary" - Do these quotation marks mean that it is a direct quotation? If so, it needs to be more clear ("A threat Maines described as 'particularly scary'). If they are just for emphasis, they should be removed.
2. Factually accurate?: OK
3. Broad in coverage?:
  • Could use more information about accolades/awards, preferably in a separate section (see previous note)
  • Should contain a discography
  • Needs Persondata
  • "Additionally, Maines took a summer course, "Introductory Wildlife," at Texas Tech in 1995." - I don't think this is particularly relevant. If she has dedicated a lot of effort to wildlife study/conservation since then, some explanation should be added to the section about her personal life.
4. Neutral point of view?: OK
5. Article stability? OK
6. Images?: OK

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you for your work so far. — Alex valavanis 09:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Will work on it, crossing things off as we go. ZueJay (talk) 19:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

  • Maines is the daughter of country musician and producer Lloyd Maines. She graduated in 1992 from Lubbock High School in Lubbock, Texas - woaaaa what happened to the 18 years before that? why does it not mention where and when she was born?
  • She spent two semesters at West Texas A&M, then a year and a half at South Plains College - Do you know what course she took?
  • background vocals - wikilink
  • ncluding the number one hit - where was it number one? saying it is a 'hit' when it is number one is redundant
  • popular "Sin Wagon." Popular according to whom?
  • Maines eventually became - redundant eventually, later on you mention the 2006 album
  • Maines has continued to sing for and with other artists including Pat Green, Sheryl Crow, Charlie Robison, Yellowcard, Stevie Nicks, Patty Griffin and Pete Yorn. One sentence paragraph, merge it. Also what does sing for refer to? Se sings songs for the other bands? What about collaborated with artists such as..
  • bassist Michael Tarabay. Is he the Dixie Chicks bassist or in his own band?
  • 'Personal life' needs re-writing it doesn't flow at all - Maines met Bob. They married. They have two kids. They have homes in LA - it needs better flow from sentence to sentence
  • In 2002, -> In 2002, don't link years by themselves
  • the President of the United States is from Texas. Perhaps after president add (George Bush) in brackets, as he won't be president forever and Wikipedia will be around for a long time.
  • Feud with Toby Keith - one sentence paragraphs
  • presuming the acronym stood for Fuck You Toby Keith. Reference doesnt say anything about standing for Fuck you Toby and seems like Original research
  • A review of the concert by The Guardian - name of the reviewer?
  • sweeping all five Grammys for which they were nominated. 'sweeping' seems a bit out of place
  • External links come after references

Looks good, will pass after these things are fixed, if you disagree with anything feel free to comment. M3tal H3ad 05:57, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hehehe -
  • Those 18 years 'ran away' ahh! - Working on it
  • That's all I've got on the colleges - other editors?
  • Did the wikilink; tried to fix-up the "number one" thing; rmv popular "Sin Wagon", I have no source to cover that; tried to rmv redundancy in 2006 album sentence; rmv stand-alone year
  • Played with the "also worked with" para a lot - good word, collaborate, much better
  • Worked a bit on 'Personal life' - not sure how to make it 'flow' better, do not have a lot of info available on it and have a penchant for not wanting to include too much info on these anyway
  • Think I was able to incorp who was the Pres in a reasonable manner - I prefer to keep the quotes for this particular item "clean" (i.e. free of insertions, dotted lines, etc.) as that appears to have been part of the impetus for the controversy; got Guardian reviewer's name but I think it might be a wiki non-notable, although this was interesting; changed 'sweeping' to 'receiving' but I'm not convinced that was needed as a lot of the press seemed to say 'sweep'
  • You know, I haven't seen anything in the WP:MOS regarding the placement of the refs and ELs relative to each other - I'll change it as that is how most wikiarticles have it, but grudginly
  • Working on Toby Keith section - pllttt!

Hey, and thanks for doing the hold instead of outright saying 'nope'. I appreciate having the opportunity to fix it first ZueJay (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry forgot about this, everything major seems to be of taken care off, when you get the time fix the other things and consider a WP:biography peer-review. M3tal H3ad 05:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] West Memphis Three

A recent edit added information regarding Maines work to spread word about the West Memphis 3 through a blog post. I question the current WP:Notability of the inclusion of this information...Has Maines been more proactive than simply a blog post on this issue? Has there been a concert in which she participated? Has she talked to the news media about the issue? Until a bit of notability is established for her activism on this issue, I'm hesitant to include it in the article (and have reverted it for now). Thoughts? ZueJay (talk) 02:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)