Talk:Naruto Uzumaki/Archive 4

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Archive 4

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Inconsistency

First of all, sorry if this has already been discussed: in the introduction to this article, it says that Naruto's village was destroyed before Naruto's birth, but in the "Background" secion, it states that Naruto was an infant at the time. I don't know which is right, but someone who knows should change it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.0.186.147 (talk)

The background version is correct. Naruto was newly born when the nine tailed fox was sealed within him. The introduction is also misleading by saying that Konoha village was destroyed; It was attacked by the nine tails, not destroyed. BTW sign your post next timeAnthonzi 19:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Depends on how you take attacked and destroyed. Some would say it was destroyed as probably a large portion of the village could have been in ruin (as it probably would be if a giant four legged animal with nine long and very strong tails decided he wanted to break things).TheUltimate3 20:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Ultimate: thats would be speculation; speculation doesn't really work with fictional stories IMO, or in any encyclopedia in fact. However I can site the character introductions of the English version for the "at birth" issue. The intro of this article also states that Naruto himeself encases the spirit; the spirit is actually sealed into him (mostly grammar problems here). I'll try to rephrase the intro section.Anthonzi 05:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC) Is this article under a full lock or a semi-lock? Anyway I can't edit it atmAnthonzi 05:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Chakra amount

Is it true that the shadow clone evenly divides up the user's chakra?

The clones receive an equal endowment of chakra. Whatever this amount is varies on the user, but chakra is distributed evenly amongst the clones. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 01:03, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

There's a problem with that. While fighting Gaara, he made a ton of clones during the first attack, all of which were destroyed, so he's already at, I'm going to go with 1/20 of his chakra. Then he made 4 clones, which were destroyed, so he's then at 1/100. then he divedes that cakra twice(1/400) and makes two thousand more clones.(1/800,000) And that's without considering he fought Neji about an hour earlier.

There's an equal amount of chakra that goes to the clones. It isn't 1/2 of Naruto's chakra, it's however much he wishes to give them. With his demon fox chakra, he has enough to give practically all the clones the same amount of chakra that he normally does. However, with his regular chakra level being so high, he can give a fairly large amount. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 17:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

During the fight with Neji, it was shown that chakra is divided equally between the user and clones. That's why Neji couldn't figure out which Naruto was real

Um, isn't there still an argument here? this guy brings up a good point.

I don't think there is a valid argument. The clones received an equal portion of the chakra put into the Jutsu, not the total amount the ninja has (Citing when Ebisu explained chakra control to Naruto; It shows clones are a result of an amount of chakra put into them and the degree of chakra control the ninja has, not by nature exactly 1/2 of the chakra). Neji's comment was that Naruto masterfully used the Jutsu making just enough, with the right amount of chakra, that he left himself with the same amount of chakra as the clones.Wildodeelf 16:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

True, but he created 4 clones with the same amount of chakra he has, so he's already down to 1/5 of his chakra, then doing the same with at least twenty more clones. Even with his massive supply, he couldn't use as many clones as he did with about one hundreth of his chakra.

It's anime, it doesn't need to make sense.

I know, but it should still abide be the rules of that universe. You only have so much chakra.

You say there's a limit on what a Shonen hero can and cannot do? Cite precedent for that. Naruto's chakra capacity is exactly what Kishimoto says it is at any given time. Wildodeelf 10:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Naruto has access to the demon foxs near unlimited chakra supply so making a few thousand clones wouldn't be much work with an ocean of chakra at your finger tips. compared to everyone else who has between a bucket and a swimming pool worth of chakra. SuperN 17:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

While fighting Gaara, Naruto didn't use the fox's chakra until AFTER creating thousands of shadow clones.

He's right. And under the shadow clone article, it says that "the chakra is evenly divided betweein the clones and the user." Even without the fox's chakra, Naruto has a good supply, but the numbers brought up earlier are correct, and simply too great.

Unless I'm mistaken, whenever a shadow clone is dispersed, at least most of the chakra used to make it returns to the user.

You did? I don't remember that. Search for proof, since if you find it, this argument will end.

That is incorrect. No chakra returns, so how Naruto uses the shadow clone without killing himself from lack of chakra in a matter of minutes is still a mystery.

You state conjecture as fact. Memories return. What makes you believe that nothing else does? –Gunslinger47 19:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Memories return, but aren't you editor guys saying something in the series has to be stated to be true? You're the one using conjecture, not me. Returning chakra has never been brought up.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.113.178.222 (talk • contribs).

He's got a point71.113.178.222 02:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Please, register accounts if both of you are going to be editing from the same DSL account. –Gunslinger47 03:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It seems like it has been awhile since anyone commented on this but I'm going to add my two cents anyway. First off I think that it should be noted that Neji made a point in mentioning that Naruto equally displaced his chakra. I believe that while it is correct to assume that all clones created (or at least those created within seconds of each other at least) have an equal amount of chakra that the original user of the jutsu may not and Naruto deliberately created the clones in at a number where their chakra capacity was near equal to his. Next thing to point out is that while Naruto's ability to handle the Kyuubi's chakra is limited that his access to it is not. As Naruto becomes stronger he is able to use more and more of it at a time albeit at the detriment of his body. For instance during his fight with Orochimaru if he had accessed that much chakra when he first transformed he probably would have been obliterated along with Sasuke, Haku and perhaps everyone else on the bridge so there may be a small limit to how much he can access based on his ability to handle it. Also given the Kyuubi's chakra ability to heal it may be possible that the Kyuubi simply healed Naruto and replaced his near depleted chakra with it's own which would also explain why the seal is weakening and their chakra is merging with one another because Naruto keeps using the Kyuubi's as if it is his. Furthermore If in fact the original user of kage bunshin is able to control how much chakra he puts into the clone then it may be possible that he only created the 2000 clones neccesary to perform the combo on Gaara long enough to hit him. After all when Naruto first uses the jutsu on Kakashi he makes a note in saying that he probably won't be able maintain the clones for long. Lastly it could be just a continuity error as I suspect Kishimoto has made more then one. Rodog4009 18 June 2007

It has been established that the user's total chakra is distributed evenly amongst the clones. This is to make them indistinguishable to enemies, as well as have them be able to use techniques. There is also a chakra cost to use the technique and is increased by the number of clones the user creates. Furthermore, the user's chakra control and efficiency dictate how much chakra is used during the technique. A user with high control would be more able to more efficiently create clones, allowing no chakra to be wasted and only using the bare minimum of chakra to be consumed. A user with poor control would have a hard time, perhaps having to overcharge the amount of chakra put in to the technique just to achieve a lesser effect. It is a battle of finesse versus brute strength, with finesse winning out. Naruto's chakra control had improved by this point but was by no means good. The ammount of chakra he must have used to achieve the effect he did when fighting Gaara is staggering, and the fact that he and all of his clones showed no signs of tiring from the technique must mean that his chakra total is ridiculous, to say the least. And all of this without the use of the Demon fox's chakra. There was one other factor that may have helped him achieve this feat, before summoning his clones, he became more determined than ever to protect the ones he loved, the emotions of this triggered an overcharged state in Naruto, he had so much chakra that it was pouring off him. He may have also been concentrating harder, improving his control. The effects of these, especially the former may have helped him summon all those clones. As for the other issue at hand, and this is just my opinion, I believe that when a clone is dispersed, all the chakra that clone had returns to the either the user, or is dispersed among all the other clones, as during the Neji versus Naruto fight, even when his clones were dispersed Neji still could not tell who the original was. The clone may not return all of the chakra given to it, as it may use techniques that require chakra as well. 72.234.46.143 12:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that is true but during the fight with Neji, Naruto's first batch of clones gets destroyed because neji could see which Naruto had the most chakra and Neji took that one down. Then Naruto equally disperesed his chakra which gave neji a hard time. Naruto only uses his clones for a short period at each time which means he doesn't use as much chakra as it takes to keep the clones up for a long period of time. When naruto fought gaara and did hiss Narutos handbook Move he made a lot of short lasting clones because each clone only got a few hits in each and then dissapated. there were only about 300-400 clones in that move. The average shinobi would have used up all his or her chakra. But Naruto's seal lets the ninetails chakra mix with his on a normal basis , but since its mixed the chakra keeps naruto's blue chakra color. But after he summons Gammabunta , Naruto's chakra is gone and he draws upon the ninetails chakra. His chakra is always mixed with the kyyubi's so the kage bunshin no jutsu is made that much easier to pull off for naruto along with his constant use of it allows him to make a lot of clones. FlamingHiei 7/4/07

Ummm... I think what everyone's forgetting here is that no matter how much of whatever you have you have you can still divide it by whatever. 88.110.144.196 21:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Naruto/Sakura Relationship

Hey, all. Is is just me, or is the ammount of information about romantic or otherwise connections between Naruto and Sakura somewhat limited? I'd just like to point out that in a recent episode of Naruto Shippuden, (can't remember which one though,) Naruto was somewhat ecstatic at the possibility of a date with Sakura, to which she didn't act offended, but rather commented that it should be his treat. And following this, she is shown thinking about Naruto, wondering if she should have gone with him even if he would only pay for half, (this may prove that the interaction wasn't comic relief). Whataya think? Please discuss.Spehizle 23:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not an important part of his character, and most of all, would be considered WP:CRUFT --VorangorTheDemon 02:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

It's also mentoined in manga ch. 297 that sakura now loves naruto too (as hinted by one of their superiors)

Since Naruto doesn't have any family and since Sakura still likes Sasuke, it might be possible that she just sees him as a brother. Then I'm pretty sure that Naruto doesn't see her like that but might. I could see a short or a long relationship in the near future for them. ~ Alexyasha 08:53 pm, September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexyasha (talk • contribs) 01:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Kakashi Relationship

You forgot to put Kakashi on the Team 7 releationships list.

You sure? It says "Team 7 (Kakashi Hatake, Naruto Uzumaki, Sasuke Uchiha, Sakura Haruno)" and has not been changed since you commented. –Gunslinger47 22:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I think he met under the team seven section, not the information box.

Ah. Good point, then. –Gunslinger47 18:34, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Naruto's Hobbies

Well we all know Naruto loves to prank people in the beginning of the tv show. But strangely he also likes to water plants too. I haven't seen him water anything. But in the game Naruto: Clash of the Ninja 1 & 2, it says he likes to water plants and play pranks on people.Korivue 20:27, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

You believe this should be mentioned in the article? –Gunslinger47 04:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

It holds no significance to his character, and may fall under WP:OR and WP:CRUFT. --VorangorTheDemon 03:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that game material is canon for the purposes of the article. Even if a canon source is found, this information is not central to the character, and probably doesn't have a place in the article. 70.254.219.106 15:14, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

True, but if it doesn't have a place here, what other place would have it? The only place one of Naruto's hobbies would go is on his page, where such things go as they don't belong anywhere else.

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Facts are not mentioned for the sake of mentioning facts. –Gunslinger47 04:16, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

I truly believe that this article needs clean up. There is a lot of cruft, and the writing isn't that great. Suggestions of how to make it better? --VorangorTheDemon 03:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't want to sound like a smart ass, but know if sounds very in universe to me. /shrug guess its just me. I mean, the part where Kakashi is refered to as his Master, seems a little to "I'm an person in Konoha who is watching this," sort of thing. Not to mention you used the term "Sexy Jutsu" when I'm pretty sure it suposed to be Sexy Technique. Its a little thing that stuck out to me.

Greatly appreciated if you would sign your comments so that I know who I'm talking to. Anyway, if it bothers you, then you're more then welcome to fix it. I'm simply here to re-word and elimnate cruft (which excuse my languge, but there's a sh**-load of cruft in this article simply because of the wording. If you don't know what cruft is, click HERE). --VorangorTheDemon 06:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Demon Fox cleanup

I'm kind of new to this discussion so I'm sorry if my reasons don't make sense to you guys for this. But, I feel we need to either combine the two fox sections or make each of them talk about specifically what they their titles suggest. I mean, after a little while in the "Naruto and the Demon Fox" they start talking only about how he helps/hurts Naruto in battle. So, why do we even need the Demon Fox's Assistance section if it is just all of the battle part repeated? -Wolfmage59

The Naruto and the Demon Fox section if I am correct simply gives the "base" info on the symbiotic relationship between Naruto and the Kyuubi. The Demon Fox's Assistance part explains it in more depth. Thats how I've always read it.

I understand what you are saying but I still believe that at least cut down on how much he helps in battle in the first one and leave that up to the second one to explain it to people more in depth. -Wolfmage59

So, Just asking, do you agree, because I'm not going to do anything until I know for sure.

More pictures?

This article doesn't have a lot of pictures. Perhaps more pictures could be added, it makes it easier and more exciting to read. --VorangorTheDemon 15:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

While i agree the article could use more pictures, I think we are lucky we got 4. Most articles just have a picture of now and then. This one managed to have (for instructive purposes) one for before and after, One Tailed transformation, Four Tailed transformation, and Team 7.TheUltimate3 15:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

"It makes it easier and more exciting to read." This is not a valid fair use rationale. –Gunslinger47 16:17, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Did I say anything about using that as a fair use rationale? See the Goku article for reference. We had the same issue there with four pictures, however, we managed to add more. I'm always up for more manga pictures. And especially if their pics from offical guide books. There's none here from official guide books. People seem to be fan-boys of the anime and forget that it started out has Manga.--VorangorTheDemon 19:25, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought there was a usual consesus (at least here) that they would rather use a anime image than a manga one beccause they are easier to see. Regardless, the format we have for our article, doesn't require a butt load of images. The images we do have, while small fit their purpose.TheUltimate3 19:42, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Can we get a new infobox picture?

Wouldn't it be better if we had a picture of Naruto with his headband on for the infobox? The headband matters very much to Naruto (specifically because iruka gave it to him) and he is almost always seen wearing it, and while wearing the headband his face looks different than without it. Plus, Naruto has a very strange expression in that picture that doesn't seem very much like him. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares

I found an image and scaled it accordingly. The problem, I don't think I can use it as I found it on a search engine. TheUltimate3 01:05, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I have a pretty good one from the Season 1 opening. I got it from Naruto2.com. I'm going to try and add it. --VorangorTheDemon 22:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Of the two pictures that have been used, I prefer the one with Naruto's headband. It should be the one used because it shows that he's a ninja.

stop using

We should stop using pictures from yhae manga becouse of the quality.Supah kid 21:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

And we won't because 90% of Shippūden has only been released in the manga. Not to mention that I've seen excellent manga scans and some very bad anime pictures. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 21:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I have always found Manga scans to be better because they reflect a more direct and canon veiw on the article (being that they are the creator's original work). It enhances the encyclopedic value of the article. --VorangorTheDemon 22:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with the above ...i bielive that we should use the manga worked of are just remember Shippuden begining Naruto art in the Manga look way better than how the anime showed it (which is distributed on the article ) i prefer Kishi art over the animaters as of right now

they dont seem to impress me and also Kishi was orginal artist he should have his one worked of art on the article in the first place (until i fine a great anime pic of him) im not logged on so --ItachiStrife56

Cruft!!

There is a ton of cruft in this article. For those of you who don't know what cruft is, it is information that is only important to fans of the series, or information that is only understandable to people that know about the series in the first place. Like the second sentence in the article says something like "He is a member of Konoha 11". Ok, good, but I don't even know exactly what that means, based on my limited knowledge of the series, I'm assuming it is a team. Someone who stumbles upon this article to learn more about some character named Naruto is going to have no idea what some of this means. This is called "cruft". And the info section in the character box is cruft as well, non-fans don't know what the heck "Genin" means, or even what the significance of "team" is. I was thinking about removing it as it is not needed (it is explained in the article), but I decided against it until I informed you guys. I think we should start to focus on removing cruft. Here is an example of an article that I have been working on to remove cruft, and I believe that it is going along very well. To eliminate cruft, we need to write the article like we're talking to people that have no idea what you're talking about. Happy editing!! --VorangorTheDemon 00:05, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

You are aware that both "Konoha 11" and "Genin" are links, correct? The purpose of links is to refer readers elsewhere to learn what something is instead of going into excessive detail about otherwise unrelated topics in this article. ~SnapperT o 00:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I was going to mention the exact thing. That said, I'm not going to defend the "he is a member of the Konoha 11" in the introductory statement. This is not his in-universe identity. Naruto is the nine-tailed jinchūruki from Konohagakure. –Gunslinger47 00:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

/clearsthroat Ok, if people don't know what Konoha 11 is, they can simply click on the link provided. People that look at the info box and see Genin, if they don't know what it is, would and SHOULD have the common sense to simply click the link where it will send them to the article describing what a Genin is. If they don't now what the word "team" is, they are beyond our hope to help at all.To simply put: The Cruft you are describing is but into the context of the show the character in question is in and the links provided are there to help sort of the grey areas. TheUltimate3 00:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if there are links, it's still cruft, and will never make GA with phrases like that. We could say "Naruto is a junior ninja called a Genin and is in the ninja squad named Konoha 11." Short little explanations is all you need. That makes more sense then just throwing random facts out. It's a pain to read when you have to click on stuff to even get the slightest idea of what it is. It makes the article hard to read since you have to look at other pages just to know what the basic meaning of something is. The purpose of links is NOT to know what something is, the purpose of links is to know more about something.--VorangorTheDemon 00:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Inconvenience does not equal cruft. "Cruft" is something you couldn't hope to find important unless you're an avid fan of the series, such as saying Naruto's favorite color is indigo or that Kakashi's favorite food is baked beans. Applying your definition of the term to articles could easily cause only 20% of articles to actually be about their subject. I'm not saying this article lacks "cruft" or that your remedy is not needed, but your perception of it is not as problematic as you make it out to be. ~SnapperT o 00:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I will somewhat agree with that, but to support myself with another guideline, the wording does work against THIS. Read the fifth one down on that list. --VorangorTheDemon 10:07, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

All you actually need to know for the sake of this article is usually summed up within the first few sentences of the article or link, not somewhere in the middle of the page. And honestly, why would someone besides Wikipedian reviewers read this article if they aren't fans of the series? They wouldn't. That is what you fail to understand. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 11:32 (Eastern Standard Time), 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Tons of people use Wikipedia for reference on lots of things. You can't think that way of no non-fans coming here, that would then violate every Wikipedia guideline out there. There's a reason to guidelines. The article will be deleted if we fail follow the major ones. That guidline I used as an example is one of those. --VorangorTheDemon 19:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Except that WP:PERFECT is not a guideline. Even if it were this article is in need of far more pressing edits than trying to explain what "manga" is so that people don't need to read some other article. ~SnapperT o 19:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, there is a guideline out there somewhere stating that articles don't have to be perfect.

Vorangor is generally correct, if I'm reading his stance correctly. We should pay special attention to ensure all Naruto terms are properly introduced in an article the first time they're used. –Gunslinger47 21:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Re-indent. Yes, but if this is ever going to be a GA, the in-universe material needs to be drastically reduced... Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 22:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

And at that point, we might as well delete the entire article. :PTheUltimate3 22:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

We don't need to go that far and you know it Ultimate. Rewording is all we need to do. And Snapper, WP:PERFECT is categorized as a guideline even though it doesn't say it on the top of the page. (look at the bottom at "categories"). --VorangorTheDemon 23:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I find more value in guidelines that actually get a guideline template, like this. Regardless, I still fail to see the need to explain something another article exists to explain instead. So long as the link is provided in a way that allows the reader to see how it applies to the article's subject, I see no need to do anything else. ~SnapperT o 03:02, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

After looking at some featured articles I'll retract that last bit; expanding upon links is more useful than I thought it would be. What I noticed, however, is that those featured articles are not wholly self-contained, and without prior knowledge of the subject certain areas still require using links to understand something. So while I now agree with your suggestion, I find it to be a second tier issue if this article is to become GA quality. ~SnapperT o 03:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Vorangor. Most of the article is esoteric; fan cruft. I believe that this article should be a place where people who are unfamiliar with Naruto can find out who the character is. It shouldn't be a forum for the latest and hotest debates about the chapter that came out just last week in Shounen Jump.Anthonzi 19:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC) Also I'd like to add that alot of the latest information would be considered spoiler content. Do you want to tell someone who just started reading/watching the series that Naruto is most likely the son of the Forth?Anthonzi 19:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

We don't use spoiler tags to mark off plot details. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 19:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not mostly cruft, nor is it a forum. The bit about him being the son of the Fourth was heavily implied (if not outright stated). It is something the article can't do without; information on family is commonplace on fictional character articles, so I don't see why Naruto should be an exception just because it was a recent revelation. Wikipedia contains spoilers.

As for the bit about esoteric fan cruft, which part of the article are you referring to specifically? I suppose abilities might be going a bit too far in-depth, but I wouldn't go so far to call it esoteric since everything is described well enough that a casual reader will at least get the gist of it. Though I have to say, the prose in most sections could use a bit of reworking. I'll get to that shen the article gets unlocked. You Can 't Review Me!!! 19:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not as familiar with the contents of this article as I am with others but there are a few insignificant facts I've noticed. Example 1: One of Naruto's hobbies is gardening, even though Naruto was beaten in episode 20 for not knowing the difference between weeds and herbs, though this may have been due to carelessness in his effort to outdo Sasuke Uchiha. He is the one who gives Kakashi Mr. Ukki, the plant seen on Kakashi's windowsill. Kishimoto once described how he had the same plant for a while until he fed it undiluted plant food. Example 2: Despite rapidly maturing throughout the series, Naruto retains a naive streak and a knack for childish accessories. For example, his pajamas always include a comical black nightcap with eyes and teeth. Naruto also keeps his money in a chubby, green-frog wallet he affectionately calls "Gama-chan". Both are fairly minor details that have little to do with Naruto's character; the second example, at best, could be reduced to passing mention. I also don't see the need for two demon fox sections, but that's another matter. ~SnapperT o 19:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Rasengan

Here Rasengan is called by it's origanal name, why is it that on the tecquices list is it called Spirling Shpere, I think we should change it.Ultimaterasengan 18:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Chidori is also called by its original name. An agreement was reached on Talk:Naruto that Rasengan and Chidori be called such. // DecaimientoPoético 18:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

No I'm talking about the tecqunice page for it, it says Spirling Shpere not Rasengan.Ultimaterasengan 18:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want the name on the jutsu list to be changed, why not discuss it there? // DecaimientoPoético 18:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

That was pointless-ffhcfzfrb mj

Before

I much prefered it before, when all of the charracter's jutsus were listen in the box 'o' info. Why did we change it? ĎÂЙḸ

Probably space. Probably becaue we named them in the Abilities sections. Probably because they got to long. Who knows. TheUltimate3 18:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

References

In case some of you reading this discussion page right now doesn't know, I have just added a bunch of references to Naruto's page. Naruto's (the character, duh) article is the only article in the entire series that has a chance of making FA one day, and something that would greatly help with that is removing the in-universe information. That is where the references come in. If there is a large amount of references, the amount of in-universe style quality for this article will significantly decrease. So, I propose that we try to fit in as many references as possible, as that would help to him achieving GA or even FA greatly. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 15:20 (Eastern Standard Time), 13 July 2007 (UTC)

In-Universe

So now we got the In-Universe tag. So, what are we going to have to gut out?(please note: the term 'gut out' was used for comic value, but still) TheUltimate3 09:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The new references have to stay, there is no way we can remove them unless the part they reference is removed. The last paragraph in his backround isn't very backroundy, for starters. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 12:48 (Eastern Standard Time), 14 July 2007 (UTC)

You're right it looks Personalityish. Anything else?TheUltimate3 17:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not saying it should have been removed, I'm saying it should just be re-worded, especially the first sentence, because it actually is slightly personality. We can also add the references that I cannot add, because I do not plan on looking all over the internet for translations of the manga to find references for the parts of the series the English manga has not yet reached. For example, it would be very nice to have references for his abilities and the parts set in the Shippuden-tone. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 14:10 (Eastern Standard Time), 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I've read and read this article, yet I cant for the life of me think of a way to rewrite it in a Non in-universe fashion. Fudge it seems pretty fine to me though this is because I can't see how anyone can see certain things as in universe or not. Some things like characters can sound In Universe depending on who is reading it. Anyone else got any ideas?TheUltimate3 01:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It's very difficult to judge fictional characters in or out universe in the same way as an article about a fictional *whatever* that isn't a person. Fictional character articles should be judged differently than other fictional articles. Anyway, I, too, cannot find any way to improve it. I like the new infobox, though. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 12:13 (Eastern Standard Time), 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah this is confusing. I'm about a week to a month away from just simply getting rid of that In-Universe thing. I just can't for the life of me see HOW to differentiate it. The "Ficitional Background" or "CHaracter Personality" was the best I had.TheUltimate3 22:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

wouldnt it be easier to just create a wiki for the naruto universe?Bigjkirk16 11:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. Someone made a Naruto Wiki but that thing is trash beyond help.TheUltimate3 11:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean, i would try to fix it but i suck at doing the whole editing thing, but if you guys tried it im pretty sure you can fix up pretty quick, and then there wouldnt be the whole poroblem of merging aticles. This has probably been brought up before but just thought to put it out there. i was dissapointed when the naruto II article was deleted because i never understood the manga. iunno, w/eBigjkirk16 01:35, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Trust me, its harder than it looks. Hell the line between In-Universe when talking about a character and Out of Universe when talking about a character is very thin. Its hard to give detail about the character without it somehow being In-Universe.TheUltimate3 02:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the tag is there specifically for the in-universe issue as much as to point out the article's lack of quality.Anthonzi 04:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

New infobox review

This article is being used as a test subject for a new general purpose anime and manga character infobox. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Infobox animanga character for more details and to make comments. --Farix (Talk) 15:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Naruto's Face

Does Naruto have whiskers or are they scratches?

-They're neither. They are marks on his face that give him a more fox-like appearance. He is the vessel of the nine-tailed demon fox, so that is why those marks appear on his face.

-So does that mean that it's like a birthmark?

No it means that his biological features are being mixed with the nine tails. Yxgtree 01:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Parentage

Is it just me... or does the Fourth Hokage look ALOT like Naruto. And everyone continually says they are similar. So, my idea, and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this... what if the Fourth Hokage is Naruto's father? It'd make sense. I mean, why seal the Kyuubi inside a random baby? Shadow Da Hedgie 19:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Congrats! You are the five-millionth person to reach this conclusion, the two-millionth to bring this theory to Wikipedia, and the two-millionth to learn that this is neither a forum nor a place for speculation. You Can 't See Me! 19:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you serious with when you say 5 million and 2 million thing?

I don't think you are but just want to make sure you are not being sarcastic or anything like that.

Er, that was just for emphasis. But you're not nearly the first to come to that conclusion,nor are you the first to have it shot down on Wikipedia. You Can 't See Me! 20:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Speculation cannot be included in articles. Talk pages are for improving the articles they are attached to. Therefor, you should not speculate on talk pages. WP:V, or it can't be mentioned. –Gunslinger47 22:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

they do look alike-gfgd

apparently in the new chapter they said the Fourths name is Minato and his wife was a red head and her last name was Uzumaki and she came from the whirlpool country (ironic) - JoeUndies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.214.36 (talk) 20:23, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Not really ironic maybe her last name was uzumaki which means whirlpool because she was some important person in that country. And Pein also has hair like naruto but its red like naruto's mom.....just thought i would mention that... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.35.238.200 (talk) 02:16, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

After reading what you guys have just said and some other info, I have a theory I'd like to discuss. But, UI'm still pretty new and dont know where to discuss it at since you said this isnt the right place. Wolfmage59 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfmage59 (talk • contribs) 19:08, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

As a general rule on Wikipedia, speculation should not be discussed on talk pages. Sorry about this, but it you'll need to visit a forum if you want to share your theory. You Can 't See Me! 19:25, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Seems the 4th is noted as Naruto's father, would Minato's name also not be Uzumaki? Seems that from the last manga it was not explicitly stated that he was the father and the conclusion is speculative? <Crindo2>

There is no doubt about it, Jiraya and Tsunade were definitly talking about the Fourth Hokage being Naruto's father in the last chapter, who else could they possibly be talking about? His mother also have been revealed, this information should be put in this articleWraith12 03:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)Wraith12

There's lots of doubt. They were merely talking about how Naruto resembles Minato, then how he resembles his mother and lastly how he resembles his father more than his mother. It can mean two things: Naruto resembles two people, his parents, or Naruto resembles three different people, one of which is an unknown father. As such, no confirmation has been made. FallenAngelII 03:32, 29 August 2007 (GMT+1) The forth is Naruto's father, don't they basically say it in chapter 367? the other two boys Jiraya taught didn't look at all like naruto and he was talking about how he taught Minato. Then Jiraya says that Minato was like a son to him, making naruto like a grandson... Crindo2's right, they didn't say that the forth, Minato was naruto's father. So if naruto isn't the forth/Minato's son then someone should go change the page with info on the 4th, cause it says there that he is naruto's father then on Naruto's page it says that he might be related. Its just confusing. Alexyasha 07:33 PM, 1 sept 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexyasha (talk • contribs) 00:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Now we got Reference issues

I have no clue what to do for this one either. Anyone got any ideas? EDIT: I've done a small search, I personally cant find a SINGLE place where we would need to add those ISBNs. I'm starting to think people have it out for Naruto (article).TheUltimate3 20:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, listing the volume number is much more useful to the general public than listing the ISBNs, as the general public could care less about ISBNs. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares, 19:04 (Eastern Stanard Time), 23 July 2007 (UTC)

As a member of the general public I don't even know what ISBNs are! /cryTheUltimate3 23:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

All but two ISBNs were added, because I don't have the volume for those two references (volume 15). If anyone has volume 15, please add the ten digit code to both references. To do so, add a ;, and then put ISBN, and then the ten digit number listed. There is also a 13 digit number, but since most of them are already 10, let's keep it that way. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares, 15:23 (Eastern Standard Time), 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Is a Bibliography needed on a Character page?

Cause I would think it would be more at home at the main Naruto article, not his character. Because again, I've been to alot of character articles and simply alot of manga/anime artcles in general, and have never seen the IBSN thing or Bibliography. TheUltimate3 10:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Well a bibliography is necessary as it proves that the information there is true. Omghgomg 10:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

To rephrase that: every page ought to have its own references section to prove the information that is on that particular page. You Can 't See Me! 17:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

References do the exact same thing, Omghgomg, so why not just list them there instead of making them their own individual section? User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 19:30 (Eastern Standard Time, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

To anyone with Volume 1

If anyone has volume one of the manga and can download a picture from the manga onto the internet, can you please do so with the pictures of Naruto on page 60 and download them onto Wikipeda, so they can be put in his Development section? If so, please do. Thanks. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 21:25 (Eastern Standard Time, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Statement

"Kishimoto stated in a recent interview in the U.S. Monthly Shonen Jump that he got inspiration for the character from his own childhood while he was enrolled in the Academy."

I'm considering removing this. Though it may be true, we can't keep an indefinite citation in the article. Does anyone have the U.S. Monthly Shonen Jump issue where that was stated? If yes, I'll leave the unattributed sentence there for a week or so for the source to be placed; if within that time no one can provide a direct reference to the issue, page #, including the ISBN of the magazine to check verification, that entire sentence will have to be deleted. Lord Sesshomaru

An encyclopedia shouldn't use the term "recent". –Gunslinger47 15:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I listed which issue it was, but when I tried using the ISBN it couldn't be found. I don't think US Shonen Jump monthly issues use ISBNs like the books and volumes do. Considering how all it is is a collection of stuff from other books, it is possible. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares, 17:36 (Eastern Standard Time), 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Just to say it, that interview was FAR from recent. The latest issue I could find that had any information comparing his past to Naruto's was from early 2006. We should really watch out for those kind of things. User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares, 19:48 (Eastern Standard Time), 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Current arc section

It's pretty clear that Naruto's article is the only one that will never get a plot overview section like the other articles. We know Naruto plays a role in every arc, so why don't we just have a current arc section like the One Piece articles to show what he's doing during the current part of the series? Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 17:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

As long as we don't have to get rid of anything sure. Why Naruto never got a Current Arc section is beyond me really. TheUltimate3 18:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Added, i think someone should clean it up, but that's just to get the ball rolling Creat0r 12:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Why doesn't Naruto get his own plot overview section and just a current one? If those like Sasuke and Sakura have one, shouldn't the main character have one as well?Darth G 05:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The only problem with that would be trying to figure out what to mention, since Naruto is at least partially present for everything that goes into the Plot overview section (ie. Sasuke stuff, Orochimaru stuff, Akatsuki stuff). It would be like summarizing the whole of the series in 500 words or less<!-not an actual figure to try and reach->. It's certainly possible, but something that needs some thought. ~SnapperT o 05:31, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Naruto pretty much get's his own plot overview on the main page, and the current arc section is purely to inform a user of what is going on. The only other character to consider getting his own current arc is Sasuke, as he seems to be Naruto's counterpart.121.44.94.46 08:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Summerize the current arc he's in, with only the important crap like current: He joins a 8-man team, they split up, his group sees Kabuto, he leaves and they follow an explosion to the rest of the gang, Naruto shadow clones and seperates, he finds Itachi, he gets genjutsued or something I was never really sure, revelations about his family. Expand to make proper sense like we have now and we're set.--TheUltimate3 00:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Naming Convention

In his abilities section, the various clone-combo attacks are mentioned. However, they are named using the westernized form (Naruto Uzumaki Combo, Naruto Uzumaki 2k Combo) and in other pages they are referenced using the original names (Uzumaki Naruto Combo, Uzumaki Naruto 2k Combo). Should we clean up this inconsistency somehow? ApokalypseCow 15:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and just for completeness's sake, I thought I should mention that I have read the FAQ - the characters certainly should follow the western naming scheme, as agreed upon in the survey, but I'm not sure that this applies to the name as presented within a technique title. ApokalypseCow 16:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It should be whatever name is used in the lists of jutsu. Go ahead and fix it. ~SnapperT o 21:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)