User talk:Nabuchadnessar

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Nabuchadnessar, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 18:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)






[edit] Assyrian DNA 1

Nabu, I will reply to your reply here since its getting too crowded on the Assyrian people page. 1. I am trying to say that there is NO CONCLUSIVE proof that they are geneological decendants, but rather Bon Fide or ethnicly decendants, as ethnicity is self-determining.

Nabu, that is the case with all ancient people. There is no conclusive proof that today's Italians are direct decedants from the Ancient Romans. But history connect the two on the bases of two primearly things; language and culture (with language being the strongest of course.) Lets start with this; Are you dying today's Assyrians speak a language that is 3,000 old?

This article is unjust and full of POV from Assyrianist scholars who blindly proclaim Assyrians are the only GENEOLOGICAL decendants of ancient Mesopotamians only on the bases of language and culture, but those things have nothing to do with genetics, like the example of Hispanics.

See my answer above. Again, isn't language and culture what ethnicity is all about? I know that you are demanding clear cut genetics link, but that is simply not realistic. How are scientist to do this? Explain an experiement to me.

I believe POV has no place in Wikipedia, especially this controversial topic, and they should rather simply give the facts to make it neutral

Raising my hand. I have fought for 3 years now for making controversial topics neutral (see my work on Macedonia (region), Christian Arabs, Racism in America, to name a few.)

Assyrians are Bon Fide (good faith) decendants of the ancient Assyrians' rather than 'Some wanker (whose Assyrianist) says they are the only decendants of the Assyrians

I'm an American, so you will have to excuse me, I don't know what you mean by wanker. But please don't use such words. Your suggestion is a good one, but that is not what you did when you first started to edit the page did you Nabu? Instead, you deleted sourced material [[1]] (which by the way, is a big offense here on wiki). Does this right here [[2]] sound like a professional edit? Its not a coincidence that other non-Assyrian users came and reverted your edits - because they were pure vandelism.

There are genetic tests - especially from the National Geographics institue (like 37 marker mtDNA) which can be used, as it can be compared with bone-tissue mtDNA (I think it's because if the tough properties of Mitochondria - that they don't decay like cells or something like that) from ancient preserved samples of Mesopotamians. The closeness of the DNA can determine the liklihood of relations/geneological decent. I'm not too sure about the exact mechanics of it all, but you can go to the National geographic's Ethno-geographic project site and check it out.

I have seen this project, but it has not been completed yet. But it goes without saying that today's Assyrians are descented from Mesopotamia. That is not even a question. For the love of God, if where not, then what are me, European? But to prove direct descent from the ancient Assyrians, like you want, is again simply impossible.


And for my name, well it's a long story: I am an Arab, and after a bet with an ignorant idiots I know, decided to get a DNA test to show that I am a closer decendant to the first Muslim tribes (who some say are related to Prophet Muhammed and his family) despite being Athiest. The results I got showed that my ancestors moved into Iraq from the Arabian Peninsula about 3500 BC - way before Islam/Arabs, and the suggested ethnicity on it was native Mesopotamians. Interestingly too, in the geneological break-down, I'm also like 13% Jewish, but only 12% Arab :D ! I'm thinking of doing another DNA test to cofirm they didn't get mine mixed up or something, in the future when I have the money to spend again. Anyway, you can see why I chose that name. May I ask about you name? Why you chose your ethnicity as you name, because I haven't met anyone else who for example calls themselves Anglo-Saxon or Aryan or Black without assuming they're supremacist nutjobs lol :D

That is a very interesting story. Its not suprising that you have Jewish blood. Many Arabs were originally Jews before the arrival of Islam. Take a look at some of Saudi's old cities and you will see many of them had Jewish majority. So you consider yourself to be Mesopotamian blood? As for me, well you seem to be confused about Chaldeans. No its not my ethnicity, its the name of my Church. I'm a Catholic Assyrian, ie Chaldean. As to why I choosed it, well when I first started editing wiki, I was a very religious man. I am not so much, but I can't change my username. I don't mind it though. Please don't think people are suprmacist just because they are proud of their culture. Black is a race, not a culture. Chaldean (talk) 20:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assyrian DNA 3

As for the arguement, I do agree that for all intents and purposes - especially in light that there's no such thing as 'pure race' especially in the mid-east,

There isn't pure ethnicities or race in the whole world, not just the Middle East. Thats just how it is, all of mankind has lived in one earth since the beginning.

I will agree that it is fair to call Assyrians Bon Fide decendants of the Ancient Mesopotamians. However, considering there is no such thing as a pure race and my DNA results, I believe it is also justified to recognise some Iraqi Arabs as arabised,

Nabu, this is accepted among historians and Iraqis themselves. I don't know if you understand Arabic, but if you ever watch a Iraqi tv channel, you will see how sometimes they show how patriotic they are of Al Rafidain (Bet-Nahrain) and many politicians advocate Iraqism over Arabism in terms of them being Mesopotamian descent and different from other Arabs.

This is especially true in the Levant and Iraq - you can see the section here on wikipedia on 'Arabisation'. Furthermore, you understand that ethnicity has nothing to do with geneology (one of the first mistakes I did here), but is rather self-determining.

But that self-determination is largerly based on what language that group speaks. Which I think is a fear thing to do. No? If your grandfater was born in Greece, your father was born in Greece, and you were born in Greece and only spoke Greek, wouldn't it be justifable to call yourself Greek, even thou you don't know your DNA make up beyond your grandfathers?

I understand I started being Mesopotamian slightly more so after my unexpected DNA results, but you must understand that Iraqi Arab culture (and even language dialect) has always been distinct from other Arab cultures and dialects.

Azizi (dont know if you know what that means) I know this lol I was born in Iraq and lived there for quite a few years :D

We are equally proud of out Mesopotamian heritage (you know the Iraq National Football - or Soccer, team is called Lions Of Babylon) One close couzin of mine represented the Lions in the 86 world Cup ;)

My proposal for a compromise is that the only and sole phrases that (in my opinion) wrongly imply they are the only geneological or ethnic (in terms of cultural) decendants of the Mesopotamians be removed

I agree with this, and I am looking at the page and I can't seem to find anywhere stating this? Can you please point it out for me.

I wont fear a supremacist from now on :D And thanks for your work against PoV's, I and many Wikipedia users appreciate it.

That is what I've done for 2 years now. I do this so that people continue to take Wikipedia seriously. I do hope you become an active member here (if you feel like it.) It is a great way of learning about your heratige. Chaldean (talk) 03:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] =Salam/Shlama

Hey there nabu, why don't you edit your user page [[3]] so that it doesn't stay a red mark anymore when you sign your name on talk pages. You can write whatever you want, or add any pictures like mine. If you dont know how, let me know I'll assist you. What do you want, Iraq picture? Iraqi football? The British Queen? :D Just let me know. Chaldean (talk) 14:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I like spicy chicken pizza too. Chaldean (talk) 01:48, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


Mesopotamia is beautiful, isn't it? :) Chaldean (talk) 02:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the parts that aren't blown up that is. Tourskin (talk) 03:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shlama khouny

Hey whats up. I am a Chaldo-Assyrian from Iraq. My mother claims the "chaldean" ethnicity whilst my father claims the "athury" ethnicity, but we're all the same. Its great to see a fellow Assyrian wikipedian. Like yourself, I am 19 years of age, born in 1988 and like yourself moved to England, though that was back in 1992. Then in the summer of 2006 I moved to San Diego and thats where I am at. So you moved in 1998 to England? Wow, thats cool man. We each have our own exodus stories. Tell me more about yourself.

Well khouny, if you need anything let me know.

pou-sheb shana.

Tourskin (talk) 18:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Apoligies, I realized when I left the message that nothing said you were Assyrian. Its great to meet an Assyrian wikipedian, but its equally great to meet an Iraqi Assyrian too. In my eagerness to relate with you, I thought you were Assyrian lol.
Like yourself, I also moved to another eastern country before England. My family went to Jordan and Syria first, then England. Well, if my arabic is not too bad, asalam? Lol, bye!Tourskin (talk) 23:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
And no, Christians were treated well in Iraq by the Muslims before, just not now, although no one is treated well in Iraq regardless of religion of ethnicity. Tourskin (talk) 23:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Right now... well, I have finished my A levels in England, did one year of College in the United States, and plan to do another three years at UCSD as an undergraduate studying Human Biology and Philosophy. Then go to med school (4/5 years) and be a doctor hopefully - lol, its in our country's history to be doctors. I moved with my motehr, father and sister to england, whilst me and my mother live in San Diego, my sister is a doctor in england and my father works abroad. what about you? Tourskin (talk) 00:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I can assure you that having too many doctors and engineers in Iraq is the least of Iraq's problems!! lol, don't let my gardes fool you, I was rejected by all 8 medicine universities that I applied for. Yes, thats right. I applied in 2005/6 and was rejected for all four med school unis. I then applied again, armed with my good grades ( I thank you for your compliments) but was rejected again for the 2006/7 term. It didn't matter because in 2006 I moved to San Diego, so when I applied a second time as a repeat I was already in America. Well done azzizi for getting medicine in ur first choice uni, to hell with those who reject you!! Lol. It sounds like you got a nice time there brother, I am very happy for you. I just wanted to be a doctor there, find a beautiful Iraqi woman (persian and egyptian women will do just fine!) marry , have kids and watch them replicate my lame life!! lol. Tourskin (talk) 00:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
aahh come on!! Middle Eastern girls are the best!! Lol! Tourskin (talk) 01:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

dude, we gotta play chess sometime. Tourskin (talk) 01:33, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HAPPY ASSYRIAN NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOOOWWW!!!!Tourskin (talk) 04:36, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I must annoy you with the Assyrian stuff sorry. Anyways, I understand the word "Haleeb" which means milk, and I like milk!!! I'll try to have fun, not easy whilst tring to be a pre-medical!!!! You enjoy that Haleeb bro!! Assyrian and proud of it. (talk) 22:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about the username, I did it because someone said my old username of "Tourskin" was too nationalistic, even tho tourskin is in fact a made up word which was once a password of mine. So its parodying their idiocy. Well, later!Assyrian and proud of it. (talk) 22:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah I'm changing it back too soon to Tourskin. Wish I had some of that zarda ou haleeb sounds good. Assyrian and proud of it (talk) 15:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you really wanna be called pink princess?Tourskin (talk) 00:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol, watever floats ur boat bro. Tourskin (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank You

Thanks for your support on the Glock talk page. ProtektYaNeck (talk) 17:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Islam

Why are you personally attacking me? Why are you under the misguided view that Christians and Muslims have lived in peace? Has it ever occured to you that the Middle East was once a Christian area? Did they all simply convert when Islam came into the scene? No, all religions have committed crimes before but that is besides the point. You seem to think that Islam is absolutely and 100% peaceful and with no record of mistakes, of course it has, just as any religion has, but that does not mean you have to start attacking me personally, you can't escape the truth, just accept that other followers of our own respective religions have been fools and deal with it; it has nothing to do with your relationship with God. My user page has nothing other Jesus asking his followers to accept his body and his teachings, nothing fanatical, I am not a fanatical Christian, I tire from your poor unprofessional editting, this is not how wikipedia works, it doesn't work to suit your ideas or hopes, it works according to concensus and sources. Don't get on the wrong side of me and don't attack me personally again because I never attacked you personally, only your views. Attack only views, not people. Tourskin (talk) 23:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I DARE you to point out anything that I said was racist in ANY way, in my user page or what have you. Tourskin (talk) 23:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Nabuchadnessar/Pink Princess, I would echo Tourskin's sentiments that personal attacks are not the way to go as it contributes to a more negative atmosphere. If you dispute the accuracy or neutrality of the section, we can discuss it at length on the talk page, but we need to maintain a degree of civility. While I would dispute Tourskin's suggestion that the Christians in ME were forcibly converted to Islam (forced conversions were actually very rare in Islamic history), I would say that the Jihad section as it stands is quite balanced. But you are welcome to disagree and discuss this further on the talk page. ITAQALLAH 13:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Where have I said that forced conversions to Islam have occured en masse? I have said that Assyrians have been persecuted and that Timur-i-lenga was a great persecutor but then again he persecuted anything that moved. The only place I know of for sure where conversion occured forcibly during a certain period of time (not all the tim) was in Coptic Egypt when the Jizya tax was raised extortionately high for a period of time. Anyways, it is a fact that religious freedom is less in the Middle East than in the West, especially in Saudi Arabia and in Egyot where it takes 30 years of planning permission to build a Church. But this has nothing to do with my contribution to the Islamic article and I have never even mentioned this in the Islamic article, why is it being mentioned, to discredit me? What has this go to do with anything?Tourskin (talk) 16:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

I am quite relieved now that we are able to restore our friendship, apology accepted with gratitude. But what you believe is the problem in the Middle East and what I believe is the problem in the Middle East, whatever that problem we think it is, should be kept to ourselves. If you think that I am wrong to think as such, then it is my fault, and should be of no concern. Similarly, I don't press me beliefs that the Crusades was started by the Islamic Turks capturing Jerusalem in 1071, nor do I point to the fact that many Churches in the Middle East, especially Turkey have been turned into Mosques, and that there is no equivalent in Europe because there never was a native Islamic presence in Europe like there was a native Christian presence in the Middle East. But then again, you have the Reconquista, which destroyed the achievments of the Islamic Moors in Spain and others as such. Who really cares, I just want my Assyrian bretheren in Iraq and Syria and Copts in Egypt to live and worship in peace and I want Muslims to worship in peace too. In some parts of the world, this is realized and in others it is not.

Thank you again, because I know apologies require bravery.

Respectfully,

Tourskin (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again, thats pretty awesome of you to say that. Tourskin (talk) 17:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article cooperation

When you have the time (as I don't right now!), lets pick an article to improve together, something to do with our Iraqi heritage (maybe some random ancient mesopotamian thing or something) and then feast on the pride together! What say you!?Tourskin (talk) 23:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

How about Babylonia (Persian province) (it currently doesn't exist.) You guys can work on it and make it a good article, like the way me and Tourskin did with Achaemenid Assyria. There's tons of information on that specific issue, since King Darius I spend much part of his ruling living in Babylon. Chaldean (talk) 21:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)