Talk:Nabulsi soap

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Good article Nabulsi soap has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
An entry from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on April 2, 2008.
April 23, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
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[edit] Survey

WP:Good article usage is a survey of the language and style of Wikipedia editors in articles being reviewed for Good article nomination. It will help make the experience of writing Good Articles as non-threatening and satisfying as possible if all the participating editors would take a moment to answer a few questions for us, in this section please. The survey will end on April 30.

  • Would you like any additional feedback on the writing style in this article?

Sure. Tiamuttalk 12:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

  • If you write a lot outside of Wikipedia, what kind of writing do you do?

Political analysis, fiction (in my spare time), copy-editing and linguistic reviews for academic publishers. Tiamuttalk 12:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Is your writing style influenced by any particular WikiProject or other group on Wikipedia?

Not the style, but definitely the choice of what subjects to write about is influenced by my involvement in Wikiprojects. Tiamuttalk 12:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

At any point during this review, let us know if we recommend any edits, including markup, punctuation and language, that you feel don't fit with your writing style. Thanks for your time. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 04:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Comments

  • The segment in the lead that says ...since as early as the 10th century, Nabulsi soap has been exported across the Arab world and even to Europe. is missing from the article's body. Surely, it should be mentioned somewhere in the "History" section. --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • It's cited in the lead, so I don't have a problem with that. If it hadn't been cited, then I'd have agreed with you. I think that the "as early as" is redundant though, and ought to be removed. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 15:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Review

Apologies for not getting down to this review sooner. I have a few comments to make, after having reviewed this article according to the good article criteria:

  • I think the image in the lead is a bit too large, too overwhelming.
    • See my question about this below. MoS says to use 300px.
      • Done. Thanks for explaining. I've removed 300px.Tiamuttalk 16:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "Nabulsi soap has been exported across the Arab world and even to Europe." Why even to Europe? Europe's not that far away from Palestine.
    • Done. Removed "even to".
  • The ordering of sections doesn't work for me. I think it should be History, Production process, Today.
    • Done. That was the original ordering. Al Ameer Son changed it and I have changed it back.
  • I'm not happy with the Physical description section, and what's informative there would be better in Production process I think. I'm particularly not happy with the apparent favouring of the Al-Jamal brand. Does the other manufacturer also hand-wrap its product in crinkly white paper?
    • Done. Merged the physical description section into the Production process section. Also made the sentence on the wrapping non-specific, but I'm not sure that the other factory does individually wrap its bars.
  • Following on from that, the Al-Jamal factory is named, but the other surving producer is simply described as "operated by the Touqan family". So are the two surving brands called Al-Jamal and Touqan?
    • I will try to find out the name of the Touqan family factory and get back to you.
      • It doesn't seem to have a name besides Touqan soap factory. The family is very well known in Nablus so it makes sense that the factory would be named after them. (See Ibrahim Touqan for info on one of the family's more illustrious members.)
  • "By the early 20th century, Nablus was the largest soap producer in the whole of the Fertile Crescent." "Whole" is redundant". Fertile Crescent should be briefly explained, not just linked to.
    • Done. Removed "whole" and added a list of the present-day countries included in the Fertile Crescent.Tiamuttalk 16:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "The two powder mixtures (the qilw and sheed) are combined, together with hot water from a copper vat, in fermentation pits" There is no fermentation involved in soap production, so why "fermentation pits"?
    • The source itself uses "fermentation pits". Tiamuttalk 16:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "The soap is commonly used with a loofah in local homes ..." Homes local to where? Nablus? Palestine?
    • Done. I removed local since its insertion there made it seems separate from what followed; i.e. it's use in hammams in the Levant. Tiamuttalk 16:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "Despite the hardships, Nabulsi soap continues to be sold in shops throughout Nablus and the West Bank ...". I'm not comfortable with "despite the hardships"; seems POV.
    • Done. It's a segueway from the preceding paragraph, but since you feel it's POV, I've removed it. Tiamuttalk 16:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "... the solution is carried in wooden barrels to a large frame made of one-inch wooden planks ..." Is that one-inch long, or one-inch thick? If it's thick, is that in some way significant for the manufacturing process? Needs a metric conversion in any case.
    • Done. I've removed the reference to "on inch" altogether since it refers tot he thickness of the planks, which as you point out, doesn't seem very relevant. Tiamuttalk 16:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "Soap factory owners often brag about this fact, wondering how etc. ...". This seems like peacock language. The point needs to be made in a more encyclopedic way.
    • Attributed it to the author of the article and made minor changes which I hope address your concern. Tiamuttalk 16:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • "It is in the city of Nablus, however, that the tradition of olive oil soap-making evolved into a major industry and an art." OK, I'll buy major industry, but art? Peacock language again I think.
    • The source itself says it's an art. I think "art" here is used in the sense of handicraft. I can change it to handicraft if you want since there are sources attesting to that in the page on Palestinian handicrafts. Tiamuttalk 16:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


I'm putting this article on hold to allow time for these issues to be addressed. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 15:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I'll get to fixing things right away. I do have a question however: the lead picture size was placed at 300px per the MoS. Should we ignore the MoS or is there a coding issue making this appear too large? Thanks. Tiamuttalk 16:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
My interpretation of the MoS on this point is that generally image sizes should be left to default to the user's preferences. Where there is some compelling reason to specify an image size – which I don't think is the case with this article – then it should be at least 300px so as to comply with those users who have that size set as their preference; otherwise they'd see the image at less than 300px. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 16:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Okay then. I've removed the 300px. Tiamuttalk 16:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. I've responded to the concerns raised and await further feedback on how to proceed. Tiamuttalk 16:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for responding so quickly. I'm going to list this article as a GA now. Just one thing remaining though, I'd like to see an explanation of who "Rawan Shakaa" is. Such as "According to Rawan Shakaa, owner of the ...", or whatever. Nice work, and thanks for taking the time to write on a subject that not too many of us, myself included, would previously have been aware of. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
No, no, no, thank YOU! I notice you made a lot of cleanup edits of your own there. Happily will add a description of Rawan Shakaa as requested and I very much appreciate your prompt attention here and the encouragement. Happy happy editing! Tiamuttalk 17:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)