Talk:N. Ramani

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[edit] Doctorate

What is Ramani's doctorate in and what degree does he hold? Badagnani 05:29, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV Issues

A few too many superlatives in this article to be NPOV. Powers 16:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll refrain from adding a SOFIXIT tag, but, all right, let's work to improve it. Badagnani 18:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Well I wanted to see if anyone agreed, and I'm also completely unfamiliar with the subject matter. =) Powers 21:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up pov. I know nothing of the facts on this article so some of the facts need verification.I already forgot 20:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

It's much better now. Except that the "trinity" mentioned in the article is discussed as such -- those three composers are considered as saints and founders of the tradition. Badagnani 20:20, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doctorates of Music

http://www.chennaionline.com/musicseason99/interview/ramani.asp

In the industry of music, especially in India, awards do not merely refer to academic citations and even in countries like the USA, France and Britain, honorary doctorates are valued and prized much higher than academic doctorates in the field of music. For Dr. Ramani, he received his doctorate of music in the Arizona, USA.

Please do further read up on Indian websites of music and government websites of India on music awards and also understand that interpreting Indian music as a whole is beyond the scope of academic pursuit alone and one which transcends to a spritual realm in order to completely comprehend and achieve proficiency.

Thank you very much for your detailed interrogation of this work. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Harryl (talk • contribs)

Many Indian musicians hold doctorates in other, non-music fields (such as the sciences). From which institution in Arizona did he obtain his music degree? I was unaware that one could major in Carnatic music in Arizona, as I have never heard of a Carnatic music program at any university there. Badagnani 15:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

To what are you referring? The source does not state where, when, or how he received his doctorate. If you know, please respond here so we may add this important information to the article. Badagnani 16:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, you do not seem to get the picture, the doctorate of Dr. Ramani is a honorary doctorate for his tremendous contribution to music. Though there is no doubt, that he possesses a doctorate throughtout the entire world, there are just not enough sources to prove more on the origin of his doctorate in whichever college or university of arizona.

Also understand the fact that, not all or most of carnatic musicians possess doctorates of other fields with the exception of Dr. L. Subramaniam, the world famous carnatic violinist who is a registered general practioner in India, I mean a registered medical doctor.

You do have a lot of homework to do and read up on both the life of Carnatic musicians and Carnatic music before you make any logical assertions.

From your words, I do not believe that you have a sound understanding of both Carnatic music and its musicians. Please do a lot of research on this. Thank you and kindly remove the neutrality tab, to question on the source of the doctorate of Dr. Ramani. There are just too many websites and places in the world to prove that the doctorate he has is not fake. Look up on world music sites like Sony music. You will only see the same words. "Dr Ramani." --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Harryl (talk • contribs)

There's no necessity to be rude or make incorrect assertions about the extent of one's knowledge of Carnatic music. I watch Dr. Ramani perform each year at the St. Thyagaraja Aradhana in Cleveland, Ohio, where I live and he is my favorite Carnatic flutist. Asking questions about details of people's lives, on the "discussion" pages of biographical articles, is normal here. No dramatics are needed, just actual facts. In the case of Dr. N. Ramani's doctorate and its source, little information is available online other than the U.S. state where he received it. Thus, I asked here, because you seemed knowledgeable. Badagnani 16:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The "neutrality" tag was added early on (not by me) following the writing of this article, properly, I believe, as the article was full of statements like "this magnificent artist has reached the pinnacle of the arts" -- NPOV statements more suitable for a magazine or the bio on his own website. I fixed some of that, but I think it might still need a bit of work to conform to Wikipedia's policy in this regard. Badagnani 16:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I added it a while back, and was kind of waiting for someone to agree with me before I undertook any changes. I agree that it still needs a bit of work. Powers 16:37, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The use of "burnished" on more than one occasion also seems confusing and idiosyncratic. Badagnani 16:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I am now amazed from the factual information up here. Firstly, as an American citizen, finding out the university and college that he received his doctorate should be easier to you than myself in Asia. Claiming Dr. Ramani as your favourite flautist, your actions must speak with your words as well. Contribute and churn a better article out of this.

There is no exaggeration on the style of content up here, all information up here are factual and not based on commercialising the true talent of the artist, it is not a commercial segment, but if wikipedia rules prohbit, kindly make it little gentler and suitable so that it conforms to the rules of Wikipedia. As an American speaking fan of Dr. Ramani, and as a British English trained Asian, the use of language may vary, but if it is upsetting, I feel that your command and patronage of the language would be better in editing the contents appropriately.

Thank you once again. Please contribute and make this article better. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Harryl (talk • contribs) .

Please sign your talk page comments with ~~~~. Thanks. Powers 15:41, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I do not think the tone is formal for an encylopedia article, it has a tone more like that of a brochure advertising a concert. Particularly -

1. "He perfected the Carnatic flute to achieving all the seven swaras of Carnatic music that is proven to great accuracy by both scientific and musical notations." - I do not understand what that means, does that mean he figured out the exact lengths of the flute or positions of the holes. And how is the seven swaras of carnatic music any different from the hindustani music. If what you claim is right, is that also the time when the bansuri was perfected.

2. "other national and international disciples of Mali." unclear reference, references necessary.

3. "The "Mali" bani encompassed facial expressions", What has facial expressions got to do with the transverse movement of the flute, this statement seems to convey the wrong idea.

4. "Ramani's distinctive style is the transformation of the Carnatic flute into the voice of a proficient Carnatic vocalist." Not meeting the neutral tone of an encyclopedia article.

5. "so impressed and mesmerised with Ramani's unique and brilliant control of sruthi and laya made a personal visit all the way to Ramani's home in South India the very next day to praise Ramani and requested Ramani to stage the world's first Carnatic flute" - Citation required or the statement has to go.

6. "Ramani is considered the world's greatest master of the Carnatic flute and a burnished exponent in the field of Carnatic music" - Thats as much personal as an opinion can get. Not at all in encyclopedia standards. "Greatest" and "Master" - how can that be neutral.

7. "As a result, Ramani Academy of Flute does not offer certificates to students except with the rare opportunity to learn under the tutelage of Ramani. This learning policy has made his students well versed in the proficiency of the Carnatic flute and some of them being famed individuals and teachers located around the world." - Disconnected conclusion.

8. "Ramani's son, flautist Thiagarajan Ramani, is also a noted flautist. He has equally performed with his father and has delivered a record of more than 2000 concerts all over the world. He has a large student following in India." - Citation needed.

Please look into these issues - Supradeepa