Talk:Mykonos

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Contents 1 "Some people don't like to share"? 2 Mykonos Nightlife Edits 2.1 Initial Disagreement 2.2 Presenting Both Sides 2.3 Making it more "Encyclopaedic" 2.4 Gay Resort? 2.5 Sounds like an advertisement... 2.6 Arriving to a final version

[edit] "Some people don't like to share"?

What is this all about? This is an Encyclopedia, people. It's about knowledge and not whether we're willing to share or not. Wikipedia is the collaborative work of thousands of people worldwide, and its aim is to collect as much encyclopedia-related information as possible. I consider a map, such as this a very important piece of information for an article about a place. I think that the map removal edit with the given reason "Some people just don't like to share" is not acceptable. I can see that you, User:Andruzzo have added and then removed the map without (reasonable) reasons for doing so. Please state your arguments. I have re-added the map for now; please do not remove it, and let's keep Wikipedia clear of edit wars by first discussing the topic here, before re-editing. Thanks. --dionyziz 00:44, 14 August 2005 (UTC).

Sorry...I had gotten a message from the 'supposed' owner of the map saying that I cannot use it. I wrongly assumed it was posted in the discussion by him also (shoulda checked). I tried to cntact him but got no reply so I removed the map to play it safe. I should have checked the discussion and at least posted my reasoning instead of that comment I added to the edit. My mistake and I apologize. I agree with your comments and I think that map should stay. Let's leave it. --User:andruzzo 1 Sept 2005

If there is a copyright holder for that image, please use this page to let us know about the copyright status of the map. The is certainly no problem with this matter, since we can upload a different map if there's a copyright problem; there are numerous. --dionyziz 21:34, 1 September 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Mykonos Nightlife Edits

[edit] Initial Disagreement

User:Adam_Bishop reverted the changes I had made to the Nightlife section. I reverted back and made some slight mods. I know it may sound 'touristy' to some but a section discussing nightlife will by nature sound like this. If we are to be accurate on the nature of this island (as it has been for over 30 years and continues) someone, like me, who has been there many times and can give an accurate description, should do so. Afterall, anyone who goes to this island goes there because of the nightlife and beaches. There is no other reason to go. If you all think that this should still not be there then remove the nightlife section altogether and just write a sentence in somewhere saying that "the island has great nightlife". I'm just trying to make this article great.

Well that's pretty much exactly what I did. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, so the section cannot "by nature" sound touristy. If you can't write a neutral, encyclopedic description of it, don't write it at all! Adam Bishop 15:07, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Presenting Both Sides

It appears that after a few repetitive reverts on the article by the Wikipedians Adam Bishop and Andruzzo, we have arrived at a disagreement on if we should include a wider section in the Nightlife part of the article. Please, let's discuss the issue here, instead of repeatedly reverting and let's not start a revert duel! I suggest that both of you read the Wikipedia:Resolving disputes article, if you haven't already done so, which contains information on resolving cases like this. Let us propose what exactly we want to appear in the certain section of the article in this talk page, and also exactly what we do not like to be there. It would be best to create a draft of the specific section of the article in this talk page; when we all agree about what should be put there, we can edit the article itself. Although you will still be able to do so, please do not revert or edit the certain section of the article page again, before we arrive at a common agreement.

The two different proposals for the "Nightlife" section were the following, as seen in the last two reverts of the page.

"Nightlife" section by Adam Bishop (15:03, 1 September 2005, UTC):

"The nightlife of Mykonos is among the best in the world. It has been rated among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean, along with Ibiza, Ayia Napa and Rimini. The nightlife in Mykonos focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs, but the dance clubs also host some of the world's most famous DJs."

"Nightlife" section by Andruzzo (12:27, 1 September 2005, UTC):

"The nightlife of Mykonos is second to none in Greece and among the best in the world. Mykonos never rests and party animals from around the world rate it among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean, along with Ibiza, Ayia Napa and Rimini. From the moment clubbers set foot on Mykonos they can swing from the best gigs with international superstar DJs that come to spin on the island every summer, to the liveliest beach bars in Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga, to the trendiest gay clubs and the hottest private parties in the villas of the rich and famous.

Truth be said, that Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs. What is really exciting is the after-hours bar-hopping in the narrow town streets where anything can (and does) happen. From having a Fredo or a Frappe at a cafe next to a famous movie star to sharing drink shots with a famous fashion designer to watching a drag queen show. The little bars of Little Venice are famous for drinking cocktails and watching the sunset while easy listening music plays. Later, at night, the streets, bars and cafes are filled with everybody who is anybody in a fantastic and multiracial atmosphere where common people mix with celebrities and high-fashion and extreme looks are the norm.

Of course, there are dance clubs in Mykonos and some have hosted the biggest DJs and the biggest events, two factors that contributed to some being on the World's Best Clubs lists."

It is clear that Andruzzo's edit contains a lot more information regarding the island, but is not in an encyclopaedic style, as Adam Bishop's. However, Adam Bishop's version misses a lot of information a Wikipedia reader might want to be aware of. Considering both sides, I suggest that we modify Andruzzo's version by changing its style to fit Wikipedia's as well as make sure it is written in a Neutral point of view. Please state your opinion and your suggestions about the article here.

--dionyziz 21:23, 1 September 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Making it more "Encyclopaedic"

I think that of the two paragraphs I wrote that the first one should stay and I would agree that perhaps the 2nd is not encyclopedic enough to stay. I think this gives a short accurate account, including the refernece to palces like Ayia Napa:

"The nightlife of Mykonos is second to none in Greece and among the best in the world. Mykonos never rests and party animals from around the world rate it among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean, along with Ibiza, Ayia Napa and Rimini. From the moment clubbers set foot on Mykonos they can swing from the best gigs with international superstar DJs that come to spin on the island every summer, to the liveliest beach bars in Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga, to the trendiest gay clubs and the hottest private parties in the villas of the rich and famous."

But we have to keep in mind that when a section is named "Nightlife" the name in itself is 'timely' and that what is considered nightlife today may not be so 10 years down the line. Mykonos has been pretty much the same for the last 30 years which is why, perhaps this can be warranted.

So to be truly 'encyclopedic' as Adam wants to be would require us to remove the section and just add the comments about nightlife under "Modern Mykonos". I think the way it is reverted now is worthless...one sentence does not warrant a section!

I agree with Dionyziz, let's modify my version.

--User:Andruzzo 1 September 2005

Well I don't mean to start an edit war here, but it's just frustrating that anyone thinks that wording is appropriate for an encyclopedic account of the island. I don't mind mentioning the nightlife if that is what makes Mykonos notable, but still...you sound like you're right some cheezy travel brochure. This isn't "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous." Adam Bishop 21:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Let's first state a few points in Andruzzo's text that seem pretty much like an advertisment...

"The nightlife of Mykonos is second to none in Greece and among the best in the world."

This is your opinion about it, after having visited it. In an encyclopedia, we would write...

"The nightlife of Mykonos is considered by many to be among the best in Greece."

Further below...

"Mykonos never rests and party animals from around the world rate it among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean."

I think that using terms like "party animals" give it a rather informal style. While in Wikipedia we want to keep a user-friendly form of writting, this is more advertisement-like. Let's not use phrases like that. How about...

"Mykonos is often rated among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean."

...and also leave the reference to the other three. Coming to the next sentence, you state...

"From the moment clubbers set foot on Mykonos they can swing from the best gigs with international superstar DJs that come to spin on the island every summer, to the liveliest beach bars in Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga, to the trendiest gay clubs and the hottest private parties in the villas of the rich and famous."

The reference to international DJs is very important, but more important is the reference to gay clubs, since Mykonos is the one and only gay resort area in Greece. Again, "set foot", "swing from the best gigs" and "spin on the island" are phrases rather unnatural for an encyclopedia. So, how about changing it to...

"A visitor of Mykonos might get the chance to meet world-famous DJs playing music in the liveliest beach bars such as Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga. In addition, Mykonos is a gay resort area during the summer, featuring several gay clubs as well as a lot of private parties."

The second paragraph turns out to be mostly useless here. I suggest that we truncate it to one sentence or two.

"Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs. The little bars of Little Venice are famous for drinking cocktails and watching the sunset while easy listening music plays. Of course, there are dance clubs in Mykonos and some have hosted the biggest DJs and the biggest events, two factors that contributed to some being on the World's Best Clubs lists."

What do you think about that? Any additional suggestions on this? Should we add more information, or remove anything else? --dionyziz 22:02, 1 September 2005 (UTC).

So, what I came up with will be, all together, as follows:

"The nightlife of Mykonos is considered by many to be among the best in Greece. Mykonos is often rated among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean, along with Ibiza, Ayia Napa and Rimini. A visitor of Mykonos might get the chance to meet world-famous DJs playing music in the liveliest beach bars such as Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga. In addition, Mykonos is a gay resort area during the summer, featuring several gay clubs as well as a lot of private parties.

Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs. The little bars of Little Venice are famous for drinking cocktails and watching the sunset while easy listening music plays. Of course, there are dance clubs in Mykonos and some have hosted the biggest DJs and the biggest events, two factors that contributed to some being on the World's Best Clubs lists."

I'm listening to suggestions from both sides :-)

--dionyziz 06:07, 2 September 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Gay Resort?

It's OK...except that "Gay resort area" should be "Gay-friendly resort area". Otherwise people may believe that only gays go there which is entirely untrue, yet the island is very gay friendly. With that change I think it sounds good.

I assume Adam is OK with it then?

--User:Andruzzo 2 September 2005

Well it's better I guess, but not completely...I'll see if I can work on it. Adam Bishop 16:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the change of "Gay resort area" to "Gay-friendly resort area"; it makes the meaning clearer, although both terms are valid here, according to the Gay village article. Adam, we are now waiting for additional suggestions for modifications on our current revision of the article section, as available above. --dionyziz 16:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Sounds like an advertisement...

Well I will say what I have a problem with, since I'm not sure I can fix it:

"A visitor of Mykonos might get the chance to meet world-famous DJs playing music in the liveliest beach bars such as Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga."

Why not say something like "Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars such as...", which sounds less like "come meet famous DJs on your fabulous vacation". After all, you might not meet any famous DJs, right? So why say that?

Is it necessary to mention "a lot of private parties"? There will be private parties at any given place in the world.

"The little bars of Little Venice are famous for drinking cocktails and watching the sunset while easy listening music plays."

This is the strangest bit for me, I think...I've never been to Mykonos of course, so I have no idea, but is that actually what they are most famous for? It just sounds weird, and something that would be found in a tourist brochure, as I said (or a description of a prize vacation won on a game show). I could do that at a bar at home, why go all the way to Mykonos?

"Of course, there are dance clubs in Mykonos and some have hosted the biggest DJs and the biggest events, two factors that contributed to some being on the World's Best Clubs lists."

This sounds repetitive...why not just include it above, "Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars and dance clubs such as..."

I hope this is helpful. Adam Bishop 17:48, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the change suggested by Adam regarding the sentence referring to world-famous DJs. Andruzzo, if you agree too let's change that. Regarding the private parties section, I have the impression that he is referring to gay private parties; Andruzzo, please correct me if I'm wrong. As for the last sentence, I think it's there to show that the phrase above, "Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs" is not totally true. Meaning that, although Mykonos nightlife is mainly in Bars, there are also notable clubs too. Let's hear what Andruzzo has to say regarding those changes. --dionyziz 20:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Arriving to a final version

I agree with these changes sounds good. As far as the "private parties", I think its best we remove altogether that way nothing will be ambiguous. As far as "Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on..." is best to say exactly what Dionyziz stated "Mykonos nightlife is focused mainly on small bars, yet there are also notable clubs also." How does that sound? I think that it should sound good overall. Adam, thanks for the input. --User:Andruzzo 6 September 2005

New version would be as follows:

"The nightlife of Mykonos is considered by many to be among the best in Greece. Mykonos is often rated among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean, along with Ibiza, Ayia Napa and Rimini. Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars the most well-known of which are Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga. In addition, Mykonos is a gay-friendly resort area during the summer, featuring several gay clubs.

Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs, yet there are notable clubs also. The little bars of Little Venice are famous mostly for their drinking cocktails."

Considering suggestions, or, if you think the latest version is alright to be used in the article, an okay from both sides. --dionyziz 10:37, 10 September 2005 (UTC).

Adam Bishop, Andruzzo, please reply with okay if you think the latest version is alright, so that we can use it. --dionyziz 16:42, 12 September 2005 (UTC).

Yeah that's fine I guess. Adam Bishop 18:16, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Everything is OK, except for the last sentence. It should be removed. Take that out and then post it. Cheers. --User:Andruzzo 16 September 2005

So, final version would be as follows:

"The nightlife of Mykonos is considered by many to be among the best in Greece. Mykonos is often rated among the top four clubbing destinations in the Mediterranean, along with Ibiza, Ayia Napa and Rimini. Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars the most well-known of which are Paradise, Super Paradise and Paranga. In addition, Mykonos is a gay-friendly resort area during the summer, featuring several gay clubs.

Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs, yet there are notable clubs also."

Seems alright to me. I'm editing the main article to put the version we arrived at. For further suggestions, feel free to use this board. Thanks for arriving to an aggreement ;-)

--dionyziz 08:59, 17 September 2005 (UTC).

I'm obviously coming in really late on this but I think the Mykonos page is too full of opinions to make it a useful encyclopedic page. "considered by many" is a really weak phrase - How many is many? I'm working on a page for Skopelos and wanted to see what was being written about other Greek Islands. The Mykonos page has begins factually but then devolves into boasting. I would guess that most on the information in the article is better covered by following the commercial links at the bottom of the page. Skopelos-Slim 07:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)