Talk:MVDDS

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[edit] Unreferenced

There is no where in any of the references that state "MDS International began developing the MVDDS technology in the 1980s. By 1996, their service offering was used in 20 countries around the world." or anything like this. Please do not restore this and just state it is substantiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WizardOfWor (talk • contribs) 01:48, March 30, 2007

From Bonisteel, Steven. "MDS Gains Ground In Bid To Share Satellite Spectrum - Company Business and Marketing", Newsbytes News Network, The Washington Post Company, May 8, 2001:
Kirkpatrick said MDS's technology - which it began developing in the mid-1980s and has branded "HyperCable" - has been used in 20 locations around the world since 1996.
Please take the time to read the references, especially since these were the references you originally used for the article. Also, you may again wish to read WP:OWN and consider that you need to give other editors room to edit articles that you create. Thanks and happy editing. Shell babelfish 03:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

These statements were not true and made by US on false representations made to MDS America by MDSI that was the subject of the case in Michigan. If you repost this I will have to turn it over to Judge Cleland. I am informed that your No legal threat rule does not shield you under the law. READ THE RULING BEFORE YOU CONTINUE> 65.34.44.240 10:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

If you can provide a reference showing that the statements are untrue, I'll be happy to update the article. Please understand that legal threats are not acceptable on Wikipedia and will result in your editing privileges being suspended indefinitely until such time as you retract these threats. Shell babelfish 14:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] From Fang Ali to jeanclauduc

"Regarding your comments Wikipedia has policies of no legal threats and no personal attacks. Please read and follow these policies. Thank you. --Fang Aili talk 13:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)"

But you somehow missed this, didn't you Shell? My 'implied" legal threat was answered with a WARNING. But I have to FIND an instance of this? You continue to show your bias. YOU SHOULD RECUSE YOURSELF. 18:51, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Edit war and Cheating the Law

MVDDS did not exist until 2000 when the FCC created the Acronym.So putting a comment from someone invloved and not marking this as a comment is deceptive. I can only do so much to coorect this as I will eventuially get blocked.

I and I think large numbers of people are seeing the PERVERSION of Jimbo Wales' dream by a few determined people.

Please see the Serious Referencing problem section of this page for good comments from someone not involved in a "edit war" with Admins. killing the dream WizardOfWor 09:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

This are again false informations MVDDS name are also use in USA by Northpoint before year 2000.

We can supply documentation about this and everybody can search also in the WEB! Nobody can repudiate the right!

Also

Thank you Weregerbil, in answer to the personal attacks of Mr Harold Kirpatrick alias WiZardOfwor it is easy to see our WEB site www.mds.fr and to mailto us and also to download the official TM and patents of MDSi http://www.mds.fr/news/Press%20Release%20MDS%20April%202006.pdf JC Ducasse MDSI CTO.

Also on the MVDDS acronym subject again by Kirpatrick of some appropriations please consider that MVDDS for ITU and Europe are not the same acronym signification and concept (To the best of our knowledge, the Hypercable® system is the only MVDDS Multipoint Video & Data Distribution Service operational terrestrial system of this type. http://www.acronymattic.com/results.aspx?q=MVDDS are MVDDS Multipoint Video and Data Distribution Service. Why Kirpatrick said yes in the past and no Today ??

According to Kirk Kirkpatrick, MDS International began developing the MVDDS technology in the 1980s. By 1996, their service offering was used in 20 countries around the world. Mr. Kirkpatrick now repudiates this. In the United States, Northpoint Technology L.L.C. requested approval from the FCC for DBS spectrum sharing in 1995 and was granted approval to experiment with their technology. In 2001, the U.S. distributor for MDS received approval for testing their service offering. Currently, the FCC allows licensees to provide television signal and high-speed internet; however, the internet traffic is limited to downstream only. [1] [2]

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MDS_International" The genesis of MVDDS was a 1998 FCC request for applicants seeking to launch commercial services on the 12 GHz band. Along with several satellite-based applicants, Northpoint asked for permission to create the terrestrially delivered TV service.

Another more info from Financial Times: Entrepreneurs need not apply January 15, 2004 By Thomas Hazlett " Northpoint Technology first came to the Federal Communications Commission with the idea for MVDDS in 1994. The company's concept was then tested, proved and ultimately adjudged to be in the "public interest" by regulators, but its request for a licence was denied."

Also in this, page Kirpatrick said:

"MDS has used microwave technology to deliver communications services in the Middle East and has Saudi and Kuwaiti investors. MDS Chief Executive Kirk Kirkpatrick predicts his company"


Yes MDSi has used microwave technology to deliver communications services in the Middle East but not MDSAmerica the deal are made by MDSinternational

And yes MDSAmerica are Hold at 98% by Kuwait investor the Sheik AliKhalifa Al Sabah :

Stories of Democracy: Chapter 8- The investigations of KOTC’s finances soon produced criminal indictments of three Kuwaitis: former oil minister Shaikh `Ali al-Khalifa, former managing ... www.ciaonet.org/book/tetreault/ch08.html

PDF] Sex and violence: social reactions to economic restructuring in KuwaitFormat de fichier: PDF/Adobe Acrobat in the case brought by KOTC against its former managing director and others ... McCoy, Kuwait Petroleum Corporation, and Sheikh Ali Khalifa al Sabah (third ... taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/index/YQXV3YQFFW4YB6LM.pdf

[edit] Disputed

I am in the process of rewriting the MVDDS court case discussion. I believe this version doesn't sufficiently describe Northpoint's involvement. More importantly, it completely identifies the technology with MDS America, even though at the time, it was licensed to them by MDS International. (I have no idea about the current status of relations between those two firms, and, since I found no sources that cover this, I plan to omit that.) nadav 22:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Nadav, Boker tov. There is much information regarding this at many differing websites. While MDSA has been called a Licensee, please see associated talk pages for more information, Be vak a sha.00:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I have been immersing myself in the Northlight, MDSA, MDSI, cases today. Can you point me specifically to what you mean (via urls)? I have read all the talk pages, but I may have missed something. As far as I know by looking online, nothing has appeared about the MDSA v. MDSI case. All I have is articles dating from 2003 and before (focusing on the Northlight case) which all call MDSA a licensee, as well as statements by Mr. Kirkpatrick that indicate MDSA used MDSI technology. (The opinion federal cir. court opinion indicated that only MDSI did not infringe the Northlight claims, for what it's worth) So this satisfies wikipedia verifiability standards at least. I will be sure to give the correct date for every statment though, in case MDSA's status has changed. nadav 00:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problematic text

Here's the text from the History section:

The MVDDS service was created a result of a "Spectrum Grab" by the now defunct Northpoint Technology L.L.C. While Northpoint was fighting with the DBS companies, MDS America Inc provided the FCC with engineering information to assist the FCC in formulating the first US MVDDS rules. MDS America was granted permission to conduct experimental testing of their service in Clewiston Florida.[1] This testing was completed by LCC International under the direction of Dr. Bahman Badipour [2] (now President and CEO of Analytical Consulting Services Inc.) in July 2001 and submitted to the FCC in October of that year.

These are the problems I see:

  1. It is not neutral to outrightly call Northpoint's attempt to get a free license as a "spectrum grab." I mentioned at talk:MVDDS dispute how some third-parties thought Northpoint's wish was fair. Regardless, we should avoid using such monikers.
  2. The second sentence implicitly portrays MDSA as peaceful, helpful company versus the warlike Northpoint
  3. More crucially, there is no mention of the MITRE report, which all third-party sources I read indicated the primary basis of the FCC's decision
  4. It is unclear how influential the Clewiston tests were on the FCC's decision. The April 11, 2002 Memorandum opinion and order and second report and order [1] mentions the tests very briefly. It also adds that Northpoint challenged the results.
  5. The second citation link doesn't work.

It looks like this section should be rewritten as a short summary of MVDDS dispute using the Wikipedia:Summary style format. nadav 22:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MMDS, MVDDS, MVDS

In Ireland, MMDS seems to include the 12GHz band since all the articles about SCTV call it MMDS. It may be confusion with the other, true MMDS providers, but I got a sense that the regulatory commission also informally uses the term. I am still not sure about MVDS. Is MVDDS just a subtype of it? nadav 16:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC) I would be happy if someone could point me to sources about this.

Hello Nadav. I sympathize with your question, though I can't tell you about sources yet. MMDS is said to be between 2 and 3 GHz, which can't overlap with MVDDS, which is an American term and is specifically 12.2-12.7 GHz. I'd like to find the official FCC definition (because I assume it is theirs). Also it is interesting that the official 2001 MITRE study, which was done for the FCC, used *Northpoint* MVDDS equipment when it was trying to measure interference. Apparently MDSA has clever methods of reducing interference that have something to do with the antenna, but details are scarce. EdJohnston 17:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I could (not now, but soon) check the FCC filings of the test they did in Clewiston, FL on what, at the time, was called MDSI equipment. I am not sure the results are public, but I expect them to be, since they are mentioned in the Second memorandum I referred to above. nadav 17:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
One thing I remember hearing re: the SCTV system is that one of the systems, I think it was MMDS, had a bad reputation for signal quality problems. SCTV wanted to make sure that people didn't think of their system as equivalent to one that was considered poor quality. It's possible that some distinctions are because of that. I'll see on Monday if I can find somebody who can clarify the terms. Bhimaji 18:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

You guys are assuming that there are "official" definitions for this. MVDDS was coined by the FCC in the 98-206 DOCKET for non-geostationary satellite systems. MMDS can mean any frequency but more than not means 2 -3 GHz. The MITRE test did not use "Northpoint" MVDDS equipment. Northpoint stated repeatedly that they did not make equipment but used "off-the-shelf" equipment designed for other uses, such as point-to-point microwave links. Their antenna, the first test, was lashed tot he antenna mast with a rope. Did anybody even bother to notice that the MITRE test was not a 'real world" test but was a computer simulation done in an anechoic chamber? MITRE did not take the equipment out in the DBS signal and measure. They just did simulations. 76.109.17.236 10:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MVDDS are not owned by MDSAmerica

So sorry but again and again MDSAMERICA staff use Wikipedia to advertise with false or truncated informations. Informations and right and full story about MVDDS are availbale on the WEB and various companies makink MVDDS worldwide

I have deleted material that implies MDS America was soley responsible for building the technology, since it has not been proven with outside sources yet. nadav (talk) 08:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Non-Signed account [WP:SHUN]. WizardOfWor 14:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Just a comment from aa casual obeserver who discovered this discussion (fight:sermon:proceeding) and knows this industry. I have seen both the MDSA SCTV systems and the MDSA UAE system as our company provides some add ons to these systems (power protection) In addition I have read the Contempt of Court agreement posted on Wikipedia. It seems that this French company is prohibuted by agreement from providing equipment in the the US of any type. I havenever seen another company produce this equipment. Who said MVDDS Is not owned by MDSA? It sure seems so to me. Just my opinion. 66.168.206.54 10:09, 26 May 2007 (UTC)