Talk:Mutual Broadcasting System

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Anon, thanks for the work. It looks like your sources were much more detailed than mine. I had been under the impression that the Quality Network lasted longer.

What was the arrangement (if any) between the stations in the years inbetween the demise of Quality and the start of Mutual? I was under the impression they continued sharing programing, is this false? -- Infrogmation 04:44 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I rolled back an anonymous contribution that discussed the quality of the article within the article, someone should edit and incorporate the accurate and relevant bits and make sure it comports with encyclopedia standards. dml 13:47, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Mutual Broadcasting Company

I have failed to establish exactly what the relation was between Mutual Broadcasting Company and Mutual Broadcasting System, but they seem to be used interchangeably, so I made Mutual Broadcasting Company a redirect. Algae 12:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mutual Broadcasting System

Suggest inclusion of several other Mutual Broadcasting System citations, sample scripts, recordings and/or links, including, at the least:

[edit] Listen To

Jerry Haendiges also posts a few Mutual Broadcasting System episodes each month, but they're not permanent links.

Digital Deli link added. Many references to Jerry Haendiges now already exist in Notes.—DCGeist 23:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mutual Broadcasting System Logo

The Mutual Radio Graphic at the top of the page is copywritten work from The Digital Deli Online www.digitaldeliftp.com. Please credit it appropriately or remove it. The original can be found at this link: Original MBS Artwork from The Digital Deli Online

Following message left with anonymous editor:
You identified a source for the graphic in the lede of Mutual Broadcasting System as the Digital Deli Online. The image page (Image:Mutua.jpg) however gives a different source: Radio Timeline. I'm happy to enter an appropriate credit in the image's caption area on the article page, but I need to know on what basis you identify the source as Digital Deli rather than the other website as the original source.

—DCGeist 22:18, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

The "basis" is that I produced the graphic myself. Furthermore, my website is copyright protected. Even further, I possess the only original PhotoShop and Illustrator graphic files from which it was produced. You may have noticed the 'khaki' background employed in the graphic, which was derived from the matting I applied to the graphic for my own copyright protected website, The Digital Deli Online. How far do you wish to take this? I defy you to obtain the original basis for the graphic from the cited source. Your turn. . . .
Here's a unique idea. . . . How about asking the orginal submitter to provide his or her provenances for the graphic?? Interesting concept, no? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.170.239.56 (talk • contribs) 12:05, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
I got it from Radio Timeline, as noted. It looks similar to the DD pic because I altered it with Photoshop to have a solid background. Since the inherent graphic components suggest that Radio Timeline probably got it from DD, I suggest we remove it and locate one of the other images to upper right. Pepso 15:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Similar my butt. It's my specific graphic, including the original font I altered to as closely approximate the original Mutual Broadcasting System font as practical. Radio Timeline apparently chose not to attribute it to me. So you wish to simply compound the error now? Here's where most of the graphics that are pilfered from my site come from. There's no point in compounding the thievery by deceit. All I ask is that you credit it appropriately. Or how's this? I simply sue to protect my copyright. What's your pleasure? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.170.239.56 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Follow-up Issue resolved by substitution of different graphic.—DCGeist 23:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Initial Review of MBS

As per the request left on my page, I've read over your site, at least for a once-over, "strikes me" kind of review. I'm not the world's best at the formatting type stuff, so please excuse the lack of practical comments in that regard.

Aside from correcting one minor error (the year of Pearl Harbor), a quick read didn't disclose anything I thought was flamingly wrong. The nature of OTR scholarship being what it is, I know there's a lot of conflicting material out there, but judging from a reading of the footnotes, you seem to have a grip on that. I just re-read "The Murrow Boys," by Stanley Cloud & Lynne Olson. This is about Edward R. Murrow and the rise (and fall) of CBS News, focusing on the 1930s and 1940s. The authors there take the position that both NBC and Mutual made a bad error in judgement in September of '39 by halting broadcasts from abroad: "by the time they regained their senses a couple of critical months later, CBS' dominance was clear." (page 58). You can take that for what you wish.

Another thing that struck me about Mutual is the sheer number of serial/kiddie programs that it created or broadcast. Cisco Kid, Superman, Green Hornet, Lone Ranger, the Shadow, et alia. Granted, many of these moved on to other networks, but this is a noteworthy fact, I think.

In terms of structure, I would break up the sections a bit more, splitting your decade discussions between subsections on corporate movements and on-air movements. This might make it flow better, with smaller, easier-to-digest sections, especially if some readers are a little less interested in the corporate stuff. (I'm an ex-corporate lawyer, so I don't count!)

Mutual's tussle with NBC ended in victory for Mutual, and resulted in a significant change in the way radio networks do business (e.g., forcing them to get rid of talent booking agencies, changing affiliation contracts, &c.). The role of Mutual's anti-trust lawsuit might be worthwhile exploring.

Ray Swing, if I'm not mistaken, moved on to Blue/ABC; I think he's the same guy I mention in my article. Which brings up the point that you allude to, which is how much Mutual stuff ended up moving to the other networks, even up to the Queen for a Day era. Bit of hard luck for Mutual, if you ask me.

Pretty good selection of pictures, I thought. I think somewhere else on Wiki there's a nice photo of Jackson Beck with Bud Collyer, standing in front of a Mutual microphone at a Superman broadcast. (Addendum -- the picture is at the entry for the Adventures of Superman radio show.) I'd also recommend a subscription to newspaperarchive.com, where I got a bunch of my advertisement illustrations for my article. If you acquire some items on eBay for your collection, like matchbooks or publicity photographs or publicity handouts and the like, these can add more spice. (You have some of this with those local materials.) How about a photo of FDR with NBC, CBS and Mutual microphones?

One thing I've been thinking about adding to my article, but need to figure out the logistics, are tag-line excerpts. Perhaps more important for an outfit that changed its identity, like the Blue Network, but still, a collection of clips as to how Mutual advertised itself over the decades, especially with its change in ownership, might be a worthwhile thing. I believe a lot of OTR stuff is public domain, so you may not have issues with using sound clips. Later clips, you might have issues, of course, so you'd have to be wary.

I hope you find the above of some use.

Sincerely yours,

Eric O. Costello 01:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Paragraph

Thinking it over, the opening paragraphs should be streamlined somewhat, and should function as more of a general overview and introduction. Permit me to suggest the following:

The Mutual Broadcasting System was an American radio network that operated from 1934 to 1999, as one of the four major national networks of the classic era of American radio, along with NBC, CBS, and Blue Network/American Broadcasting Company. It was known for its distinctive, co-operative style of ownership that lasted from its founding through the early 1950s, as well as a number of landmark action/adventure shows, such as the Lone Ranger, The Shadow, and The Adventures of Superman (radio), as well as its sports coverage; later on, it would be the radio network that would launch Larry King's career. Through its involvement in landmark litigation in the early 1940s over the means by which NBC and CBS controlled their affiliates, MBS played a major role in reshaping the way radio was conducted as an industry. From the 1950s through the end of its existence, the network underwent a long series of successive management and ownership changes, which eventually resulted in its dissolution as an independent entity.

You may need to adjust the links, but you get the idea. Use this as you see fit.

Sincerely yours,

Eric O. Costello 00:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. You're right--Superman crucial to identity, and emphasis on Mutual's distinctive cooperative nature good. Haven't found any authoritative evidence to support the case that Mutual istelf played a "major role" in reshaping the industry; rather, its weak competitive situation was used in the regulatory argument against NBC and CBS. But, pursuing your suggestion, have added substantial detail to this history.—DCGeist 20:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mutual Television

This article states "Late in the decade, there was a brief exploration into the idea of launching a Mutual television network, serious enough to prompt talks with MGM as a potential source of programming talent.[44] The plans never got off the ground and Mutual thus became the only one of the "Big Four" U.S. radio networks not to start (and eventually be dominated by) a television network."

The more I dig into old broadcasting history, the more evidence I find that despite what established history states, Mutual seems to have ventured into television.

The 1952 Hollywood Reporter Production Encyclopedia indicates there were a number of Mutual television affiliates around 1951-1952; it lists affiliations of stations in late 1951/early 1952 on pages 700-725. It lists these stations:

WNHC-TV in New Haven ABC/CBS/MBS/NBC/DuMont
WSPD-TV in Toledo ABC/CBS/MBS/NBC/DuMont
KHJ-TV in Hollywood Don Lee
(It also lists a number of Paramount Television affiliates)

This site claims KPTV in Portland, OR "As Portland's only television station, KPTV spent its first twelve months "cherry-picking" programs from NBC, CBS, ABC, DuMont... even the Mutual network."

The Internet Movie Database includes an entry on Telemount-Mutual, a joint Paramount/Mutual venture, at [1] . Cowboy G-Men is listed as a Telemount-Mutual program.

It seems clear Mutual did venture into television, if only on a limited basis. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Great work. I'll be spending a day at the library next week and I'll see what more on this I can dig up--especially on Cowboy G-Men. Certainly the Hollywood Reporter Production Encyclopedia is a strong enough source to cite.—DCGeist 05:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I look forward to your research, Dan. Total Television (McNeil, 4th ed.) lists Cowboy G-Men as: "1952 - Syndicated. This low-budget western starred Russell Hayden and Jackie Coogan as Pat Gallagher and Stoney Crockett, two nineteenth-century government agents. Leslie Selander directed the series." McNeil lists any series not broadcast by a major network as Syndicated (for example, the Overmyer Network's The Las Vegas Show, etc). "Telemount Mutual" doesn't get a lot of Google hits, but a good library might have more info. Scans of the Hollywood Reporter encyclopedia have been made, too. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
If I can butt in here, I'd like to note that WNHC-TV, New Haven still exists...it changed its name to WTNH many years ago, but it's one of Connecticut's leading television stations to this day. Why not give the station a telephone call? YouTube has bits from one of its anniversary shows, which doesn't mention Mutual, as I recall. Eric O. Costello 11:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
All four stations listed above still exist, although WSPD-TV's call signs have changed to WTVG and KHJ-TV is now KCAL-TV. Giving the station a call is probably original research, and the people who work at the station now are unlikely to be the same folks who worked at the station in 1952. I'd prefer to use contemporary sources (published sources from the 1950s) rather than testimonials from people who had little or nothing to do with the history of the station. Doug Quick at WICD, who maintains an on-line archive of Illinois broadcasting history, recently told me that very few broadcast facilities keep any records beyond what's necessary for legal reasons, and that the history of local television has in great part been lost or thrown away. Firsfron of Ronchester 13:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)