Talk:Muten Roshi

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This article was nominated for deletion on 19 September 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus..

This article was nominated for deletion on 24 October 2007. The result of the discussion was keep..

1 Renaming Page Again?
- 1.1 Google-o-Meter
2 Old Stuff Follows

[edit] Renaming Page Again?

[edit] Google-o-Meter

Google Hits for Character Name + "dragonball"
Alternate Name	Google Pages
Roshi	34400
Kamesennin	9800
Master Roshi	8190
Muten Roshi	2900
Kame-Sennin	2250
Mutenroshi	1170
Kame-Sen'nin	405
KameSen'nin	78
Muten Rôshi	38
Master Muten Roshi	31

Should we rename? I'm not keen on choosing Roshi because that word is a Zen title (see Buddhist_terms_and_concepts) and not unique enough. Master Roshi would be the logical next choice because the Master title separates the character name from the generic term. However, Master Roshi is third on the character list, behind Kamesennin. Of course, that term has the downside that it's bad romaji and not a character name outright.

Decisions, decisions... JRP 22:03, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You're right; "Roshi" alone won't do, although you might want to make a disambiguation page or add a one-line disambiguation link to the top of whatever's there right now. In this context, I'd use either "Kamesennin" or "Master Roshi" -- you should probably let consistency with other Dragonball character entries be the deciding factor. (Note to self: replace all instances of "Romanji" in Wikipedia with "Romaji"). --Aponar Kestrel 00:53, 2004 Jul 30 (UTC)

[edit] Old Stuff Follows

[edit] Renaming to Kame-Sen'nin

I moved this article to "Kame-Sen'nin" as the previous name (Master Muten Roshi) was incorrect. (It's either the dub 'Master Roshi' or the romization 'Muten-Roshi', but not both.) Looking at the other Dragon Ball character articles, the majority of the articles with differences in naming between the dub and the manga appear to favor the manga naming. (Krillin -> Kuririn, Goku -> Son Goku, etc.) So, for standardization, this was as good as any and better than the previous. If there is consensus, "Muten-Roshi" (with the accent over the 'o') or "Master Roshi" would also do. I've also fleshed out information on his name so I hope it is clear to readers that only watch the dubbed anime.

I've left the naming "Master Roshi" (without the accent above the 'o') in the article itself since it's easier than writing "Kame-Sen'nin" everywhere. It also feels more like a name. (It's an English phonetic interpretation of one of his Japanese name-titles, nothing more.) Whether those should also be changed or not, I don't know. I'm also going to wait a day or two before changing some of the places he is referred to elsewhere. Redirects are our friends. JRP 02:34, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Moving

I'll move to "Muten Rôshi", then. I've seen him mentioned as "Master Muten Rôshi" in the Shonen Jump manga. WhisperToMe 01:41, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Can you show me where? I have all the Shonen Jumps and all of the compilation volumes so far, so I'd be able to verify. Note that in the manga, "Muten-Roshi" is generally hyphenated. (Can you find an example where it isn't?)

I still stand by "Kame-Sen'nin" being the best official name we have for the character. (Note that it is the name given to him in the character list at the beginning of every manga volume.) However, I concede that "Muten Rôshi" is slightly more recognizable. That said, we should determine a rule for name spellings-- and since Wikipedia is a text medium we can be safer using the names from the text medium. (Besides, only a handful of character names were ever written out by Funimation, and they were inconsistent at best. For example, they still write 'Mr. Satan' on the back of the DVDs, even when that name is never used in the episode. And don't even get me started about the inconsistencies in the subtitles... JRP 01:58, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'll show you a scan, or I will show you where in the online manga. WhisperToMe 03:41, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Shoot! I can't find where i found that instance. Anyways, let's add the hyphen. :) WhisperToMe 04:10, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Actually, you win. Krillin calls him that twice in DBZ Vol 12. The name still doesn't make any sense however. (and the more I'm going through, the more I realize that even the English manga isn't perfect. I found cases where it uses 'Saiyajin', for example, when otherwise it's consistently Saiyan. There also appear to be some small translation differences between Viz DB and DBZ mangas; probably translated at different times. (I have a first edition of the volume in question, but I'm not spending the money to get the second just to check this.) I'm curious to check the text in the Japanese edition to see the wording that Krillin used, but I don't have a copy of that one. (I only have about 10 total in Japanese) Score one for you. (But please don't change the name back... this is much nicer and I suspect that people that speak Japanese won't look quite as sideways at it.) JRP 02:06, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Oh, I won't change it back :) - By the way, the "accent" is actually a circumflex. In Shonen Jump, it is used to mark long vowels (like "ou", "oh", or "uu" in other methods of romanization). Standard Hepburn uses macrons to mark long vowels, but Viz' Shonen Jump uses circumflexes instead. WhisperToMe 04:21, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Standardized info table Template:DB Character

{{DB Character|
RefName=Muten-Rôshi<br>''The Invincible Old Master''|
JapName=TBD|
RomName=Muten-Rôshi|
AniName=Master Roshi|
MangaName=?|
AltName=Kame-Sen'nin<br><small>''The Turtle Hermit''</small><br>Jackie Chun<br><small>''(alias)''</small>|
CanonTo=Original [[Manga]]|
FirstApp=Issue #3|
Race=[[Human (Dragon Ball)|Human]]|
FamConnect=<li>[[Urai Baba]] ''(sister)''}}

Muten-Rôshi The Invincible Old Master
Image:Master Roshi, Dragon Ball.jpg
Japanese	TBD
Rōmaji	Muten-Rôshi
Anime Name	Master Roshi
Alternate Name	Kame-Sen'nin The Turtle Hermit
Alternate Name	Jackie Chun (alias)
Canon to	Original Manga
First Appearance	Issue #3
Race	Human
Family Connections Urai Baba (sister)

{{DB Character|
RefName=Muten-Rôshi ''The Invincible Old Master''|
JapName=TBD|
RomName=Muten-Rôshi|
AniName=Master Roshi|
MangaName=?|
AltName=Kame-Sen'nin ''The Turtle Hermit'' Jackie Chun ''(alias)''|
CanonTo=Original [[Manga]]|
FirstApp=Issue #3|
Race=[[Human (Dragon Ball)|Human]]|
FamConnect=<li>[[Urai Baba]] ''(sister)''}}

This template code produces the table at the far right, very similar to the table proposed by JRP, but with the limitation that the display image must be uploaded with the same name as the displaying page, appending "_photo.jpg". I'm not sure if this can be fixed as currently there are resrictions when using image names as parameters to templates (see:m:Help:Templates#Images in templates).

BCKILLa 07:10, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

what, no discussion of Ume-gama or Roshi's family connection to Uranai O-baba? i guess kaiousama's article doesn't include anything about bubbles or gregory, so..

[edit] No real name?

The original Dragon Ball is based on Chinese literature; the early stories take place in a China-type land. Indeed, "Rōshi" was never supposed to be his name, but neither is it some sort of Japanese Zen Buddhist ref either. It's supposed to represent "lǎoshī", standard word for teacher in Chinese. His name would certainly appear to be "Muten"; it isn't a title. This would be reinforced more by the fact his master's name is "Mutaito". It would seem that this is probably his real name, more than anything else (Kame, Jackie Chun, etc.) Also much of his background with Mutaito and Tsuru Sennin doesn't seem to be there at all. Anybody mind if I tweak this entry some? Evan1975 06:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I thought in Dragon Ball volume 3 Kuririn called him August Muten Roshi. I think that's his real name. See here: http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2931/augustyl6.jpg. Majinvegeta

August is used here as an adjective, not a name (august as in great). He calls himsomething else in Japanese. Jonny2x4 06:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tri-beam

Add the tri-beam cannon to the list of roshi's attacks he uses it in dragonball episode 102 in a flash back of him and Master Shen and a bunch of other worriers when fighting against king piccolo's minnions. thnks User:Kami-Sama its a fact.

That is a filler episode, and was never in the original manga, I think that we could suggest that he uses it in the Anime alone, but not in the Manga. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Majinvegeta (talk • contribs).

Exactly just put an asterisk next to Tribeam on Roshi and done. you really should sign your posts DBZROCKS 02:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

That wasn't the Tri-Beam/Kikho. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.66.99.93 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Special Abilities

I had infoboxes for some of Muten Roshi's Special Abilities on the Special Abilities page, but someone deleted them. I'm moving them here until this gets straightened out. Evan1975 20:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm appalled! Merge to List of Earthlings in Dragon Ball?!

Who suggested that?! What's wrong with you? Muten Roshi is a very important character. He gave Son Goku the Kinto'un. The World Tournament Saga is practically another way of saying the Master Roshi Saga! Think this through. There is more than enough characters in that list already. It's only because he's not a frequent Z Fighter. Please spare the fictional former martial arts champion of the world. Uglyguy2006

As much as cruftiness irritates me, Roshi is one of the most prominent characters in the Dragonball series and most certainly should have his own page. This page could use some cleaning up, though. EvilCouch 10:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Merging a faded character such as this one is sometimes a good thing. It can avoid uneeded cruft. At least, that's what I have been told. Lord Sesshomaru

[edit] Where did it go

When I searched for "Kamehameha" it sent me to this article.So I am wondoring what happended to the dragonball article with all of the moves listed. Was it deleted? Supah kid 11:02, July 1, 2007

[edit] Rename the article (again)

Discussion moved to: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Dragon Ball#Renaming Muten-Rôshi. Please comment there. Thank you. ^^ - Poetic Decay

I find it strange that we use Muten-Rôshi as the article name when not once do I ever remember him being called such, even in the manga (although I only have the first four volumes of DB and 15 of DBZ). Shouldn't we be using Master Roshi - a more common name - instead? With the Son Goku article, the common name argument was completely different from this one (it was essentially an argument over using his full name or part of it), so please don't use that as a reason why this should remain the same. Thoughts? // DecaimientoPoético 21:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Over two weeks without a reply of any kind, and I'm starting to think either no one cares or no one knows of this discussion. I'll wait a while longer, but if there's no reply by next week, I'm moving the article due to lack of negative feedback on this idea and the reasons stated in my first post. // DecaimientoPoético 01:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Try at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Dragon Ball, you may get more feedback there than here. -- ReyBrujo 01:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why the HELL do you Consider Deleting This Article??

KEEP OR MERGE INTO THE HUMAN LIST!! Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. First you try to merge the old man, now you want to DELETE HIM!? Why!? Because his article's a "waste of space"?? Master Roshi is too important a character to just get his article wiped off the site. As much as I go against this suggestion, how about we try to merge him into the "List of Human Characters" instead of just wiping him out. That would be a sensible solution to the problem, don't you think? Same goes for Bulma-- ZeroGiga 18:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Master Roshi

Think about it. Since this article's being considered for deletion, then why not? Master Roshi is an important character in Dragon Ball... and that's pretty much it. In Dragon Ball Z, he pretty much degraded to being in the sidelines and occasional comic relief just like the other former main characters in Dragon Ball. So how about it? Merge Roshi into this section? -- ZeroGiga 19:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Muten-Rôshi photo.png

Image:Muten-Rôshi photo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Roshi.jpg

Image:Roshi.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jackie Chun Jackie Chun

I deleted a "Jackie Chun" in the "alias" section because it apeared two times —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.164.67.164 (talk) 06:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)