Talk:Muslim Jew/Archive 1

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Contents 1 2005 2 from VfD 3 Dubious inclusions 3.1 Stephen Schwartz 3.2 Yussuf Al-Khattab 4 merge request 5 Jacob Frank 6 Needs renaming 7 What? 8 Jewish by ethnicity? 9 Blatantly wrong

[edit] 2005

Would "Jewish converts to Islam" be a better name for this page? Nateji77 05:29, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Works for me. - Mustafaa 18:36, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

This proposal makes sense to me. Any particular reason it's never been acted upon? Tomer ^TALK 08:08, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Because it was totally re-written; it still might make sense though. Jayjg ^(talk) 14:42, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] from VfD

On 24 May 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Muslim jew for a record of the discussion. Rossami (talk) 22:21, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Crap. And I missed it... Tomer ^TALK 08:06, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

It survived the VfD because I turned it from a pile of... into a reasonable article. Jayjg ^(talk) 14:42, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Muslim Jew is strange term to me. Jew when convert to Islam becomes Muslim. A convert background should not be used to categorise him or her. This is against Islam teachings.

It's also against Judaism's teachings to categorize epiqorsim according to the specifics of their epiqorsuth. Avoda zara is avoda zara no matter which way you slice it. So...that begs the question...whose idea was this article, and why is the fact that neither Islam nor Judaism regards the appelation with any favor not addressed? Tomer ^TALK 19:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, there are effective differences. The Rambam, for instance, says that Islam is not idolatrous, so maybe an article on the subject makes sense. Benami 00:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious inclusions

[edit] Stephen Schwartz

Why is Stephen Schwartz's name included here? He had a Jewish father, but wasn't raised Jewish, so wasn't Jewish even by the patrilineal descent definition of the Reform Movement. Benami 00:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yussuf Al-Khattab

Why did it say he was an orthodox Jew? The website makes it quite clear he was completely secular. I assume the claim that he was orthodox was made by someone who believes the Israeli media's crap that broadly paints "the settlers" as militant rightwing religious nutjobs. If that link shows up again, unless someone can demonstrate that he's actually Jewish or even remotely noteworthy, I recommend it be removed again. Tomer^talk 05:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] merge request

Someone has requested that this article be merged with Jews for Allah, but hasn't bothered to say why. I can't think of any good reason for doing so, so unless one is forthcoming, I recommend that the merge request be removed forthwith. Tomer^talk 07:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the removal. Aucaman^Talk 00:35, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the merge should be the other way around??? Aucaman^Talk 01:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Probsibly. Go for it. I'll support that move. Tomer^talk 06:53, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well. Jayjg ^(talk) 07:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jacob Frank

I read in some web pages that Jacob Frank actually converted (at least formally) when in Turkey fleeing Poland. If I understand this article in Spanish right, he converted to Islam and to Catholicism twice each. But the Wikipedia article says he simulated conversion.

I guess that the final answer would be checking the works of Gershon Scholem.

[edit] Needs renaming

Badly. What's "Muslim Jew"? Article is about the history of conversions from Judaism to Islam, which the title does not reflect. - CrazyRussian talk/email 14:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What?

How does "Muslim Jew" make ANY sense? If this article stresses that Jews are an ethnic group, then that means they speak a common language and partake in a similar culture. If a Jew converts to Islam, THEY NO LONGER PARTAKE IN JEWISH PRACTICES, CULTURE, AND SPEAK JEWISH LANGAUGES. A Jew is a Jew and a Muslim is a Muslim, there are no grey areas people. Only according to Jewish law a Jew is a Jew no matter what. Where does Islam say that? Jewish law does not apply to Muslims! This article should be deleted. 69.235.239.168 02:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish by ethnicity?

There's no such thing. Anybody can be Jewish if they convert. The only true "ethnic Jews" are the ones that existed thousands of years ago and they weren't white.

[edit] Blatantly wrong

A "Muslim Jew" is not a Jew who has apostated to another religion or atheism. It is a Jew who has apostated to Islam. A considerable portion of this article relates to the wrong subject, and needs cleanup. --Geoffrey 02:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree either the mention of other religions should be deleted or the title should be changed. However since there is already an article about christian jews, I think it is better to make this one completely about Jews who have converted to Islam and we wont have to change the title either! Gol`