Talk:Music video

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i like you == —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.240.148 (talk) 01:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Early discussion

I don't have documentation to back this up, but I distinctly recall a TV programme some years back about short (no longer than 10 minutes) music films being made back in the 1930s or 1940s; one example they showed on the program featured a young Cab Calloway. The 1980s(?) film, "Loose Shoes" includes a humorous parody of these, called "Darktown After Dark"

A sidenote on the 1960s: for a short while in the early 60s, someone manufactured a kind of video jukebox - put a coin in and the machine played a music film loop. I once saw one of these in operation when I was a kid.... I think there's something about them on the Dead Media Project pages. -- Malcolm Farmer

de rigueur - doh!!!! :) Nevilley 01:17 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)

Are we sure that only notable/influential music videos are being included rather than people's personal favourites??? Subjective I know, but I suggest there needs to be some sort of criteria for inclusion agreed here... quercus robur

I agree this is a potential problem, but I don't think the current list is a problem. Granted, I added many of them myself, but I tried to choose meaningful videos. I don't really have any solution to prevent a future problem.Tokerboy 01:37 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)
Suggestion: how about requiring any additions to include a brief statement about why, either in the article or on the talk page. Something like "pioneering use of animation in a music video" or something. Tokerboy 01:37 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)
Sounds good to me quercus robur

Hmmm, I don't think some of these are particularly significant - Californication , for instance, which isn't particularly interesting, whereas I would have included Michael Jackson's "Black or White" and its use of morphing. However, rather than arguing about this ad infinitum, are there experts in the area who've listed some of the more significant ones? --Robert Merkel 02:06 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)

MTV's list of the "most influential music videos" since they went on the air is at http://krater96.com/music/072001mfmtv20videos.html -- Zoe

I don't know if I'd call MTV experts at anything other than pandering to the lowest common denominator, but it's a good starting place. I don't think it's necessary to do any significant weeding on the list until it becomes too long, so I vote to let people add what they want for now, and weed only as necessary. (I agree about "Black and White" too, and I will add it) Tokerboy 02:16 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)
I agree. There's no point in just regurgitating MTV's list, or else readers might as well just go there rather than here. Hopefully wiki contributors will be more discerning and have there own choices (with reasons)of what are significant music videos quercus robur
I hate to be a killjoy, but that's quite contrary to the Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Read carefully on "characterizing opinions on people's artistic and other works". --Robert Merkel 02:26 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)
OK, but then what is the point of this or any other wiki entry? If it is purely to replicate the opinions of the MTV 'experts', then the entry might just as well consist of nothing more than a link direct to the MTV link given above. This is a highly subjective area, and the opinions of wiki contributors can be just as valid as the alleged MTV 'experts', more so in fact because I doubt anybody here is being paid by a record company to hype any corporate product. OTOH that doesn't excuse listing any old crap because it happens to be your favourite band or song, but actually exercising some discrimination as to whether a song/video is indeed groundbreaking/significant/notable or whatever, and I expect other wiki's to be as merciless as ever in their editing if contributions arn't coming up to scratch... Cheers quercus robur

Do we have any idea what the oldest music video would be? The Dylan one listed in '65 I believe.. The Beatles have a bunch from that year as well. They may have a couple from '64, I'll look into that. Any other old ones out there? Might be cool if we could list the first music video in the article. -Jazz77

Surely the Hawaii sequences for Elvis Presley's 1973 concert special, Aloha From Hawaii, have got to rank among the earliest TRUE music videos. Perhaps they weren't promotional in nature, but the style is exactly in the style of the music video. When I watch my DVD of the original broadcast, I am stunned at how much those four or five clips resemble modern day music videos. And that's what they really are.--Susan Nunes

There were jazz film clips included prior to movies during the 30s and 40s. I can't remember what they were called. -- Zoe
Like old Kinescopes? Were they actually made like videos or were they just films of live performances?
As far as I know, they were just films of live performances. -- Zoe
Purpose made for visual jukeboxes. Added to article. Ortolan88 06:16 Dec 8, 2002 (UTC)
actually, that reminds me.. "Hey Jude" and "Revolution" were both films of live in studio performances, so I guess they're technically not music videos either. -Jazz77
After doing some research, The Beatles had several in '64.. "I Feel Fine" is one example.. I remember seeing it now. Same year as the "A Hard Days Night" movie, which many people also mention as part of the origin of music videos. I'll keep searching for something older. -Jazz77

[edit] The Jean Genie

I've added a reference to David Bowie's The Jean Genie (1972). This is an example of a video clip earlier than Bohemian Rhapsody that resembles the modern video clips. Maybe, Bowie's Life on Mars? (1973) and Space Oddity (1969, clip recorded in 1972) should also be added. --Neigel von Teighen 23:06, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] History

I think we have enough information on the precursors to MTV, but we still have just one paragraph on MTV itself, and half of that is about Madonna! Surely we can beef up our coverage of what our own article calls the "golden era". This part needs work. Is it possible that some of the "Countdown" coverage is more appropriate in its own article? The way it is now, it sounds defensive. --Dhartung | Talk 15:19, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

I can't remember the last time I watched a music video, so I'm obviously no expert. However, I distinctly remember my parents getting bent out of shape whenever I watched a "music video" channel back in the 1968-1972 timeframe. The television program showed non-stop videos, but many were simply ever-changing psychedelic colors and patterns, as from a keleidoscope, shown over the music soundtrack. I remember songs from Janis Joplin, Jefferson Airplane and others. Certainly this would have been the precursor to dedicated video programming?

I also remember watching a video around that timeframe for the Sammy Johns song "Chevy Van", but that would have been after 1974.--Mystreba 13:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Film V.S. Video

So which medium is used most often today for music videos? Are they still predominantly video, or has it changed to film, or maybe half and half? I've found that the music videos I see now look too much like film to be considered video. But if video cameras are still used, which ones are they?

I'd say that most of them are actually filmed on video cameras (digital) now, whereas in the past they were done on film. If you ever see the masters sent out to music stations, most old ones have contact details of a telecine firm who did the film scan-in at the during the time count down.

[edit] head photo

why is kylie in the top photo for music videos....she isn't even populor in the u.s

it mention's madonna alot in one bit about mtv, i think if your going to have a female artist in a page on music videos , then madonna is the one to have , not kylie, she hasn't done anything special.....

[edit] Music videos ripped off from movies, TV shows and other media

Please guys, give me a list of music videos borrowed from movies, TV shows, and other media.

What do you mean, soundtrack videos with several cuts taken from the movie ("Bryan Adams" - "Everything I do", "Will Smith" - "Men in Black" etc.) or new music videos based on famous characters/movies (Simpsons - "Do the Bartman" and "Deep, deep trouble" and from South Park: Cartman - "Come sail away" and Chef - "Chocolate Salty Balls") or something else? I only remember the chorus to these songs, they might have another title... 81.232.72.148 01:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] This entry is for the comments about the new site entry on the links list

Excerpt from the MVPA main page:"The Music Video Production Association (MVPA) is a non-profit trade organization created to address the mutual concerns of its members in today's highly competitive, ever-changing music video industry." There's a .pdf attachement released every quarter year for the newest videos with complete credits icluding artist,title,label,commissioner,production co.,phone number,director,exec. producer,producer,prod. manager,coordinator,choreographer,prod. designer,stylist,hair, make-up,off-line editor,telecine/colrist,online-editor,casting,spec. effects,locations. Lajbi 17:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


The three .pdf files that have already come out:

[edit] Semi-protected

Why is this article semi-protected? Hyacinth 09:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I semi-protected it because anonymous users were spamming it. But now it's not s-protected anymore. Mushroom 05:14, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Food Music Video

I was wondering if anyone could help me find the name and/or artist of a music video. It is "new," (within the last few years), it's definately not earlier than 1996 and it's probably more like 2000 or 2001... I don't remember the video too well but it was weird enough that if you know it, you'll spot it by my description. Also, they played a tiny clip of it recently on FUSE in a commercial, (which is what made me think of it). I think it involves this jar of jelly or jam which is trying to get to the love of its life, (I think it's a her), and she is in love with peanut butter. However, the jams' parents forbid it. The parents try to stop them from being together, but in the end they get together anyway. I think there was bread involved in this somewhere, she might have been in love with bread and not peanut butter, I'm sorry I can't really remember clearly. If anyone knows the song, I'd really appreciate it, be it the name of the artist or the song. I'd even appreciate a place that might be helpful in finding this video, I checked google and yahoo and the site at the bottom of this page and found nothing. Thanks!

[edit] Video clip

This was a redirect here from oct 2002 when a video clip did indeed imply a music clip. This is now not the case as is explained in the new video clip article, hence my modification of the opening. There are thousands of easily sourceable non-music video clips on the web if not millions, SqueakBox 17:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] help me, looking for a band that had bees or wasps in their music video.

they showed up in 2000 or early 2001 i caught about 2 minutes of the music video.It had the band singing in a garage or shed (the music was hard rock).what got me about this video was that the building was slowly covered in bees or wasps whilst the band plays on. what i need to know is who the hell are they?the leed singer had shoulder length black hair and tatoos on his forearms. can any one help?

[edit] Losing my Religion "banned" in Ireland

The article claims that the video for Losing My Religion by R.E.M. was banned in Ireland for (currently) "homoerotic imagery" and (formerly) "religious imagery". Theres a few problems with this:

  1. Theres no legislation to ban homoerotic imagery
  2. Theres no legislation to ban religious imagery
  3. Theres no legislation to ban music videos, which is probably the most important one.

What might -possibly- have happened was, considering it was 1991, was that the then sole television broadcaster in Ireland, RTÉ, refused to show it. This is completely and utterly different to it being banned. The video has been shown on MTV Ireland; as well as on the now-defunct Music^3 segments on TV3 Ireland, which has to answer to the state entirely for its output, being a licenced broadcaster. Indeed, I think I may even have seen it on RTÉ Two in the past. --Kiand 21:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

My source was Pop Up Video, which is a source I doubt as ardently as you do. But if the reference was going to be there (and I'm often reticent to delete content), and I assume the initial contributor was making reference to Pop Up Video from memory, it might as well accurately reflect the source. But it is true that refused-to-air is not the same as banning.


If you type in the following into a search engine you will find literally hundreds of websites which claim that the video for "Losing My Religion" was actually banned in Ireland.

"losing my religion" banned Ireland

Also R.E.M had also verified this in an interview on Australian TV during "The Panel" when asked "have any of your videos ever been banned?"

here are some reputable links which prove so

http://www.answers.com/topic/losing-my-religion

http://www.thelive8concert.com/rem.htm

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5938699/no_1_with_an_attitude/

Doesn't change the fact they can't be banned, so I've removed it. The band may have been told that, but its impossible. The answers.com page is from the Wikipedia, btw... --Kiand 23:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Plus the rolling stone reference effectively states that their Irish promoters pulled it. Big, big difference to being banned which, once again, is impossible in Ireland. --Kiand 23:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1970's punk music videos

Prior to 1980 lot's of musicians made undergorund music videos or music movies. Target Video is obviously the best known example, releasing many such videos, although these were often simply recorded live sets. Also, I have nothing to verify this, but The Screamers at one point intended to release a video album, rather than records. These are just a couple examples. This seems to be an important, or at least worthy of a mention, aspect of music videos. JonnyChance 00:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction in first video album

Contradiction in the "Modern era." First the mention Mike Nesmith released "the first video album" in 1981, but as we get the Australian version of events, there is Split Enz "became one of the first bands in the world to produce a complete set of music videos for each song on the album and to market these on video cassette -- the so-called video album." This alleged to be late 1980 - or later 1980 than the release of the single that year. Then the claim "This was followed a year later by the first American video album...by Michael Cotten." I'm not against acknowledgement of all these landmarks, but preferably in chronological order, and with whatever caveats and credits belong. Why is Split Enz called "one of the first"? If we can't call them THE first, I'd be interested to know if something came earlier, even if it wasn't as successful. That's the difference between music biz promotion and encyclopedic history, here I would expect to read Split Enz was the first to have a hit off it, and Nesmith the first to win an award for it, but there was some independent bunch of guys who had done it earlier without fanfare. I do hope whoever does edit or rewrite this can retain the degree of detail in the various contributors' posts while correcting contradictions and giving it more of a chronological flow. Big job! Good luck! Abrazame 13:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Residents

Ummmmmmmmmmmm The Residents, they are often credited with invention of the music video, yes? should we not add something about that?


[edit] Video production

An article on music video production should be created to describe how music videos are typically made.

[edit] Origination of The Term "Video"?

According to the Internet Accuracy Project, disk jockey-singer J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson (d. 1959) was the first to coin the phrase "rock video"

The link to that Internet Accuracy Project only contains their assertion and no source evidence. Was the term "video" even in use then? What about the term "rock" (as opposed to "rock-and-roll")?

Shawn D. 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I want some images! NorwegianMarcus 21:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thriller video overestimated

The line about the Thriller video containing ahead-of-their-time special effects... all those effects had already been seen in "An American Werewolf in London".

[edit] Somebody please watch over this article

Anonymous user 76.19.91.184 deleted a substantial part of the article [4] and nobody put it back in until I did it 7 days later. Over 20 edits have been done since then, each believing that the current version is a good one, thereby slowly forgetting that some good info was once there and got deleted. Therefore, it is needed that somebody watches this article regularly, checking the edits and make sure that if somebody deletes stuff, it is promptly reinstated. I try to help if I can, but I hope somebody else has got more time on their hands. Peter S. 18:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vertov / Eisenstein Comment

This needs to be deleted, or corrected, as it incorrectly attributes influences, doesn't seem to realize the prevalence of non-intertitled silent films, and doesn't even get the length of Vertov's film (which was an 80-minute feature) right.--Iivishnevetsky 20:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cameo Appearances in Music Videos

Would a subject under Music Video be appropriate for Cameo Appearances or should it have its own page? I plan to link the Actor/Actress, artist and the video to other Wiki pages.Croftbl 17:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rock World

Does anybody remember or have information on "Rock World" a late Friday Night New Wave video show that ran around 1979-1981 Edkollin 05:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scary lack of citations

While the article's reference list includes plenty of books and such, hardly any of the statements in the article itself are connected to any sources whatsoever — in fact, there are only three uses of the <ref> function altogether. On this subpage of mine is a version on the article in which I've removed every uncited fact — be warned, it's terrifyingly short…

Now, of course I don't recommend immediately changing the article to that version. However, I want us all to bear in mind that there's a great deal of work to be done here… In particular, it would be good to remove any uncited subjective phrases you can find, especially those along the lines of "Such and such was an incredibly important and influential piece." Perhaps someday, this can make it to featured status, but it'll be a long, long climb… And yes, I'm about to follow my own advice now, so please don't slap on a {{sofixit}} tag, thanks. \sim Lenoxus " * " 19:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Basic improvements: Move "history" to own article?

As much as I agree that there's a wealth of very good information in this article, I find it in very bad shape concerning how disorded and chaotic it looks, so no basic patterns and developments can easily be found. I suggest we ought to start by moving that huge History section to an own article where we could specifically deal with all those significant developments. I've tried to give it a bit more coherence and readibility already by introducing subheadings on the defining milestones for the period I'm most knowledgable about, the one that's now in there as 1964-1970. --Tlatosmd 14:53, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harrison addition needed in history section

Mention should probably be made of the video of George Harrison's "This Song," which was played on Saturday Night Live in November 1976 (same night he appeared with Paul Simon). It is a real video - not concert footage - available (for now) at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuNH1uZyaH0 98.199.120.129 09:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC) Jason

[edit] Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same (1976)

Should information from this film be included in this page? It isn't a single with a video like modern music videos (many on this article aren't), but it switches between concert footage from madison square garden and fictional scenes throughout, all to music, and it has some effects associated with music videos and general top of the pops type psychaedeic effects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KX36 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rap videos

Shouldn't anything about the song "Knock Yourself Out" by Jadakiss be mentioned, it has Jada in a bed with three naked women, I haven't seen it but whereever found it, that thing is said... and anyone know anything about DJ Quik's Sweet Black Pussy? --Flesh-n-Bone 20:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Countdown

QUERY IN THIS BIT: Countdown, which was based on Top of the Pops, was successful in Australia and other countries quickly followed the format. At its highpoint during most of the 1980s it was to be aired in 22 countries including TV Europe. In 1978 the Dutch TV-broadcasting company Veronica started its own version of Countdown, which during the 1980s featured Adam Curry as its best known presenter. '

Was this Dutch show a remake of Countdown itself? Or just a completely different show that happened to carry the same title? Melbn (talk) 02:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Take On Me

While going through this article, I failed to notice anything talking about the video for Take On Me, arguably one of the most famous music videos ever created. Other songs with well known videos, such as Virtual Insanity and We're Not Gonna Take It, aren't mentioned, either. I suggest some new inductees get listed here. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 00:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Music clip

This term is used a lot in the article but, as a British native speaker, it seems unnatural. I know lots of foreign languages use 'clip' to mean the whole video - but do we native speakers? Shouldn't this phrase be completely removed? Malick78 (talk) 21:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Factual error - 1980s section

Quote from article: 1980s - Two key innovations in the development of the modern music video were the development of relatively inexpensive and easy-to-use video recording and editing equipment, and the development of a number of related effects such as chroma-key.

If this is referring to the cost of the technology coming down in price, it might be passable. But if this is referring to the technology being available for production use, it's inaccurate. Chroma key and video effects were widely available and used since the early 1970's. A specific example would be The Electric Company, which used analog video effects generated by Scanimate, and frequent use of chroma key, on a daily basis. --Tom S. (talk) 16:42, 12 April 2008 (UTC)