Talk:Music torture

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 22 November 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

[edit] new name?

During the recent {{afd}} we discussed renaming this article.

  • So how about something like: Use of deafening music as an interrogation technique?
  • So how about something like: Use of deafening music to break captive's will?
  • So how about something like: Use of deafening music as a torture technique?

I am hard of hearing. And I find even very loud music, or other loud sounds, very disturbing, even if they are only momentary. I know I would find being chained right next to a speaker that was as loud a young GI could stand for a minute, for hours at end, to be torture. No one seems to be addressing that this probably caused serious damage to the captives -- literally deafened them. Geo Swan (talk) 11:55, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Neither one works for me.
For one thing, the use of the word "captive" is only used in the Third Geneva Convention. The Fourth uses "detain", as does common article 3. It's a minor point, but if we're going to rename it we might as well pay attention to these little things.
This isn't necessarily for people in captivity anyway. The extremists in the siege at Waco were surrounded, but not in custody. Same thing with Manuel Noriega.
Not all the music used this way is deafening. This source for Mark Hadsell doesn't even say it's loud. You might infer that from the use of heavy metal, but not for the children's music. The key was its cultural offensiveness, not its volume. It's also possible that there's a point of diminishing returns where the volume may hurt but the offensive aspects are degraded.
This hasn't been established to be torture. The use of the word has been stretched beyond reason in Orwellian fashion as only one side in this war is being criticized while the other side is encouraged. There are 12 pages of authentic torture here. Sesame Street isn't depicted on any of them.
We should have a section listing prominent organizations and individuals that call it torture. I'm always in favor of remembering where people stand.
-- Randy2063 (talk) 15:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
How about Use of music in psychological warfare? It's not perfect, but it works for most of the examples we might cite here. I don't know if it would be thought to exclude law enforcement use.
-- Randy2063 (talk) 18:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - As with any Wikipedia article, the title should be the most commonly used term for what is being described. Overly long, convoluted titles are to be avoided if at all possible. I've as yet seen no search results presented here that show the long titles to be more widely used than the current, concise title. Badagnani (talk) 20:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but who calls it that? I don't think it's a commonly used term. Is there some DoD manual with that title?
Here's one truly horrific example where it's called that but I don't know if it's worth adding another section to the article.
If it's merely an unserious title then the article should let people know that. It currently says that it is torture without a reference. I have to admit I don't really care all that much. At present, it provides an excellent illustration of how far the torture meme can go.
-- Randy2063 (talk) 23:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I think we should consider broadening the title and contents somewhat, so as to place this within a wider context. The notion of "psychological warfare" seems to point in the right direction. I think it might help to approach this in terms of what Categories have articles on similar and related subjects -- and I found three that meet that description: Category:Psychological warfare techniques, Category:Psychological torture techniques, and Category:Psychological abuse.

What they all have in common is the use of techniques that cause mental/emotional/psychological duress to achieve a desired result. Which suggests that this article should discuss the use of music to inflict mental duress, running the gamut in terms of intensity, with torture -- the most extreme case -- at the far end of the spectrum. I don't have a nice, short title, but it should reflect the breadth of the subject, with a section/heading devoted to torture. Cgingold (talk) 12:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)