Talk:Music of Oregon

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Contents

[edit] 1990s

Quick note to the young hipsters around here... you guys are forgetting the huge scene in the 1990's. Of course, most people still think most of that music came from Seattle back then, but Oregon had a huge part in it. So long as it has nothing to do with Courtney Love, it's all good. -- davidwhunt 01:11, 7 Fed 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Satryricon

I made a link to the late nightclub, The Satyricon (yes, named after the movie). In its heyday, it was where one went to see & hear decent music in Portland; it was equivalent to such . Someone who knows more about Portland music than I (& that doesn't require much knowledge) needs to write that article.

However, I've never heard of "The Met"; while I was never seriously into going to the local clubs, I think I would have heard of it (I can recall places like "The Euphoria", "Earthquake Ethel's", "Urban Noize" & "Starry Night"). Could someoneverify that it actually did exist here in Puddletown? -- llywrch 04:49, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

In American Hardcore, Steven Blush wrote "Most Hardcore types who played Portland first played the local club The Met (booked by Bill Hicks) and then at the Satyricon". Tuf-Kat 05:13, May 5, 2004 (UTC)
Well, I took a look in the local phone book, & there's no listing for The Met. One of my neighbors is very much into the local music scene, so I'll ask him if he has heard of this night club. (The alternative plan is to comb thru several years of back issues of Willamette Weekly & The Rocker.) -- llywrch 02:00, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Removed bits

I removed some bits inserted by an anonymous editor. To the author, please read over our policy of NPOV and write contributions in a non-personal, objective, encyclopedic format. I have removed everything that does not meet our standards. Thank you for contributing. Tuf-Kat 21:29, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Nomination as part of World Music for version 0.7

This article needs an extensive rewrite/cleanup before inclusion. Katr67 20:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Omission

This artical does not include country music at all. For example, the Oregon Jamboree should be listed www.oregonjamboree.com and major label recording artist Joni Harms www.joniharms.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.182.244.12 (talk • contribs) 16:39, June 9, 2007

[edit] Examples to emulate

Two FA music articles out of all the 50 states:

Katr67 23:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ideas for expansion

Outdoor music festivals are pretty big, and of course the Grateful Dead/Jam band influence is still around. Horning's Hideout and the Northwest String Summit, Pickathon, Oregon Country Fair, River City Bluegrass Festival, many small regional bluegrass festivals and jams in old grange halls across the state, Oregon Oldtime Fiddler's Association [1]... There was a pretty big folk scene in Eugene in the early 1990s, big enough to catch the attention of Fast Folk; I can't think of any big names to emerge from that off the top of my head, though the already somewhat notable Tom Intondi, who instigated the Fast Folk recording, was based in Eugene before he died. Not sure how much of this is notable on its own but a passing mention if reliably sourced would be good. Katr67 (talk) 20:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Along the same lines, maybe a summary of the bands performing at the Bite of Beaverton, Mount Hood Jazz Festival, Waterfront Blues Festival, and all the summer concert series at Washington Park, Sellwood Waterfront Park, Lake Oswego's Millennium Park, etc. would make a good addition. Maybe the per capita attendance figures? —EncMstr (talk) 20:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Should we reorganize away from the city-based organizational structure? Based on other state articles, we could break this down instead into sections like Institutions/Festivals/Venues, Education, Music Labels, and Band/Musicians. Or a breakdown by genre. Or some kind of hybrid form. However, in doing so, I wouldn't want to move away from the focus on popular music in this article. One thing I don't like about the Maryland and Minnesota articles is that they put the emphasis on highbrow/middlebrow cultural institutions rather than on the popular music that has had greater cultural impact. Seems to me that Portland's punk/grunge/indie contribution to American music and its jam-band/hippie festivals are more notable than, say, the University of Oregon's music education department.Northwesterner1 (talk) 21:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll give it some thought. I haven't really thought about it beyond "not looking like crap". Katr67 (talk) 21:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

My bro has this to say, and the fact that John Bellushi got the idea for the Blues Brothers while filming Animal House in Eugene is fairly notable. Portland has quite the jazz scene and Eugene does a little bit. Alt.country is fairly well represented (Richmond Fontaine, Pete Krebs) but do we have any well-known mainstream country acts? Katr67 (talk) 23:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Katr67/Oregon Music Hall of Fame/Temp. I am working on this. Bluelinks are all clearly Oregon-related except one, redlinks may be producers, engineers, promoters or musicians. Katr67 (talk) 01:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
We also need some more work on Robert Cray, which doesn't even mention Oregon, if we're going to claim him as one of our notables... Northwesterner1 (talk) 02:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Here's some structural examples. Emphasis on genre: Music of Washington. Emphasis on institutions: Music of Maryland. Emphasis on timeline: Music of California. Emphasis on city: Music of Arizona. Hybrid: Music of Minnesota. What fits Oregon's history the best? I like Minnesota's hybrid approach, but I think the state's most notable contributions -- (a) the Bob Dylan, Red House Records, and Prairie Home Companion-style folk lineage, (b) the Replacements > Husker Du > Soul Asylum > Jayhawks lineage, and (c) PRINCE! -- get lost at the end of the article.Northwesterner1 (talk) 00:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Hmph. I couldn't even find the Jayhawks, but they're only important to me... I agree with the hybrid approach between city/genre with a bit of a timeline, naturally, within genre but kind of flip it from the way MN does it. The California approach is kind of listy/choppy. Having say, a section on "venues", lumped together doesn't make sense--those should be handled by city, but a section on festivals would be good. A few words about Oregon record labels in relation to the indie scene seems important. By the way, here's another musician who relocated to Oregon. Pow-wows, Céilidhs and contra dancing (I think square dancing not so much) might be worth mentioning as the music is as important as the dancing. I guess there's a lot of hip-hop, but I know very little about it. We've also left out Latin music. Katr67 (talk) 02:16, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Third wave ska

This was big for a while. The Crazy 8's and the Cherry Poppin' Daddies are the groups people have heard of. There were a couple more but that was a long time ago... Katr67 (talk) 21:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Garage bands

PNW Bands has a bit of everything, but a lot on the 1960s. Oh and let's not forget the Neighb'rhood Childr'n. Katr67 (talk) 21:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Posters?

Anybody have some old band posters, you know the kind that used to be everywhere before they banned them? It used to be quite an artform. I've ditched most of mine and the only ones I have are for R.E.M., who aren't local, Philomath notwithstanding... Katr67 (talk) 21:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hip hop

Just found this article: Northwest hip hop --Tesscass (talk) 23:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Good find. Very few WikiProject Oregon articles link there. We should work on tying it into the project.Northwesterner1 (talk) 04:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Indeed. I'll go ahead and add it as a see also for now. Looks like that article could use some cleanup too. I don't much about hip hop, but surely not all those redlinks are notable? Katr67 (talk) 16:07, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way, anyone know what to make of this: Grind house? Katr67 (talk) 16:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How about some composers living in Oregon?

Robert Kyr and David Crumb teach at the Univesity of Oregon. I'm not sure how to incorporate them into the article though. --Tesscass (talk) 21:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Tess, just because some of us would like to focus on rock music, etc. doesn't mean your suggestion isn't valued. I just hadn't gotten to responding yet. I don't know much about classical. My brother is a big fan, I'll see if he has any input. Katr67 (talk) 21:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Guess I'm just a bit offended by "...one thing I don't like about the Maryland and Minnesota articles is that they put the emphasis on highbrow/middlebrow cultural institutions rather than on the popular music that has had greater cultural impact. Seems to me that Portland's punk/grunge/indie contribution to American music and its jam-band/hippie festivals are more notable than, say, the University of Oregon's music education department..." by Northwesterner1. And his remark seemed to appear soon after I posted. There is hardly anything mentioned about "highbrow" music here, and there's no danger its going get that any time soon. I'm ok with that. I don't actually have a paragraph to contribute to the article on any genre of music. I was only looking for a little balance. --Tesscass (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Tess, my biggest apologies. My comment was an edit conflict with yours, and I hadn't read your comment when I wrote it. (If I had, I would have picked a different example.) The state's classical music institutions should definitely be here, including the U of O music department. I only mean to suggest--and should have done so on friendlier terms--that the lead and structure of the article should focus on what's "unique" about Oregon's contribution to music history. (i.e.). Definitely doesn't mean we should ignore everything else. My comment was influenced by my reading of the Maryland/Minnesota articles and was in no way a response to yours. Sorry!Northwesterner1 (talk) 21:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, when I read Northwesterner1's comment, I took it to mean Oregon doesn't have any Mozarts or Gershwins, and so there isn't much to write about for classical music. —EncMstr (talk) 21:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you all. I overreacted a bit also. I personally know several people from classical music organizations, (although none from the UO). Just like pops musicians, most of them struggle to get any recognition. --Tesscass (talk) 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Tess, do you feel qualified to write a section on classical institutions/musicians/composers? I think that could be a single genre section, unless it makes more sense to have a subsection each in Portland and Eugene (Marin Alsop, former music director and conductor laureate of the Eugene Symphony should be mentioned). And Pendleton!: Oregon East Symphony. Katr67 (talk) 16:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm really not broadly knowledgeable about this topic. (I moved to Oregon after Marin Alsop left.) But I'll keep my eyes and ears open for usable info. --Tesscass (talk) 17:01, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I ran across this last night {{Oregon Symphony conductors}}, which quietly arrived sometime this year. There's probably some good info in those articles. Katr67 (talk) 19:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More possibly notable current UO music profs

  • Don Latarski-jazz guitar, cited here
  • Steven Pologe-cello, part of Oregon String Quartet, hagiography/copyvio deleted but might merit an article
  • Brian McWhorter-trumpet, part of Meridian Arts Ensemble
  • Marc Vanscheeuwijck-cello, baroque musicologist, maybe? and not just because he gave me an A in humanities...

(source) Katr67 (talk) 22:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More classical + jazz folks

To check for notability: [2]. Northwesterner1 (talk) 02:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lists of bands

If you would like to include the name of a/your/your favorite band/musician in one of the sections in this article, please bear the following points in mind:

1) This article is in a state of transition. That means it would be preferable to turn the remaining lists of musicians into prose, and not continue to add to the lists. Since we also have Category:Oregon musicians and Category:Oregon musical groups, the lists shouldn't be used to replace those categories. The lists currently serve, in my opinion, as a placeholder/reminder of bands that might merit mention and a sentence or two in a comprehensive article about music in Oregon.

2) Additions to the lists, should you choose to make them, should alphabetized (by last name in the case of solo artists), and the artist should already have an article on Wikipedia. Though there is nothing inherently wrong with redlinks, the agreed-upon standard for WikiProject Oregon is to only include links in lists of notables that already have articles. We've found that this keeps the addition of non-notable bands, vanity and advertisement to a minimum. If you think a/your/your favorite band passes the list of criteria at notability of bands, and you need help writing or formatting the article, just ask!

3) Inclusion of a bluelink in this list does not imply that the article has been examined for notability.

[edit] Possible inclusions for discussion

(in no particular order)

  • Nero's Rome
  • Henry's Child
  • Sweaty Nipples
  • Snakepit (punk band)
  • Crackerbash
  • Oswald Five-O
  • Pete Miser
  • Hitting Birth see King Black Acid

Feel free to discuss any additions you think we should have. Katr67 (talk) 16:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, from my hazy memory I'd say Crackerbash and Sweaty Nipples were pretty well noted in the early '90s. Don't know the rest. I added Pete Miser to your list, the Five Fingers were pretty big in Portland back then. Also, I'd really like to weave the X-Ray into some prose about early '90s indie rock explosion, but I'm not sure I'm most qualified to do that. But it seems so wrong for such an important institution to be relegated to the "See also" section. -Pete (talk) 07:23, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Snakepit (late-1980s) and Oswald 5-0 (early 1990s) were Eugene bands, both of which had Robert Christie, who also played in Some Velvet Sidewalk, which started in Eugene. At least three people from Snakepit went on to noteworthy things. I don't know how notable Oswald Five-0 was but I'm hoping they are, but I'm biased. (see the thread on my talk page). Henry's Child is apparently a pre-cursor to Floater, and Nero's Rome and the Five Fingers of Funk I dimly recall the name. I've been living under a rock for a while... I added another one, and by the way, to practice what I preach, I've got a draft of an article on Foghorn. They have loads of non-trivial press coverage, including national music magazines, like No Depression. Oh yeah, found these just now: I-5 Killers, Volume 2, Northwest Post-Grunge, Northwestern Presents... Rock Stars Attack!, Subject to Change (compilation album). I see a common thread on these... Katr67 (talk) 08:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of American folk musicians in Oregon

This appeared today (which I clumsily retitled) and I think it's a great idea that should be merged into this article. Unfortunately, as much as I like many of those musicians, most them aren't likely to pass the notability criteria at WP:BAND. Thoughts? Katr67 (talk) 05:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I liked your points above about converting lists of musicians into prose, given that the Oregon musicians category already exists. I would suggest redirecting the list to Music of Oregon#American folk music and inviting the editor to help expand it in prose form. If it gets too big, we can fork it off into a separate article Folk music in Oregon. I have an inclusionist bias, and I've argued elsewhere that the notability criteria at WP:BAND are much more inclusive than many folks realize, but I agree that some of these musicians are unlikely to pass the criteria at this time. All that means is that they don't yet merit their own articles and thus don't need redlinks. But if they are "noteworthy" (as opposed to notable) in the context of the genre -- for example, if they are important contributors to the larger scene -- then they can certainly appear in prose form without being wikilinked.Northwesterner1 (talk) 06:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
That works for me. At least half those groups have played at the River City Bluegrass fest so I see no problem mentioning them. Flat Mountain Girls might be OK as a redlink, though someone more mainstream like Misty River probably has more press. Katr67 (talk) 09:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

This is just the initial attempt as I see it - there's a lot to add about these separate and yet overlapping music scenes in Oregon (and the rest of the northwest). I'm just getting started, and hopefully other contributors will too. Breffni Whelan (talk) 01:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)