Talk:Music of Italy

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Good article Music of Italy has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Archive
Archives
  1. December 2005 – August 2006

Contents


[edit] regions

I adjusted that section by shifting a few sentences so that we get a smoother flow from lead to northern to southern. Jeffmatt 05:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks good - I'm also fine with adding a paragraph on film music, though I'm not entirely sure I agree with the placement. I think I'll make some small edits tonight and hopefully make a couple sound samples (may not have time to upload them, but I'll make them). Tuf-Kat 00:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I put in a couple of blue links to new stubs, one of Weapon dance. The film music paragraph could fit in other places, too, I think. I just chose one that looked good at the moment. I look forward to sound samples, though I think I am a bit technically challenged when it comes to that. I have made MP3 files before, but... Jeffmatt 05:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sound files

Hey, nice job on the sound files! I never even had to download the .ogg player. My Irfan photo view has a sound player, as well. Picked it right up. Curious about copyright--say, on those Caruso things. They're from the 1975 RCA 100th anniversary of Caruso's Birth release. They are all re-releases, of course, but a re-release can be copyrighted. If two guys named Vinnie from RCA come to visit me, shall I send them to you?

I also redid the link to Chitarra_battente. It was a one-liner, but it's an important folk instrument, so I expanded it. Jeffmatt 03:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't actually upload any of the current ones, they're all from the commons. So, tell the Vinnies I'm only the middleman... Maybe that'll give me enough time for Witness Protection Tuf-Kat 14:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Curious---the caption on that 100px photo of Puccini doesn't appear, but the mark-up looks correct, at least to my inexperienced eye.Jeffmatt 14:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I fixed it. It was missing a set of ]] (one for the Puccini link, and one for the pic). Tuf-Kat 00:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC) It wasn't defined as a thumbnail. Tuf-Kat 00:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steps forward

I've archived the talk page (feel free to bring something back if I was too aggressive, but this page is long). And I'm about to active a Wikipedia:Peer review/Music of Italy/archive2. Tuf-Kat 00:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The shorter discussion page is fine: the original was huge. The music additions are fine. The article looks good, I think. Jeffmatt 06:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I had to change this sentence in "popular music"--"Jazz remained little known, however, and Italy remained largely closed from international popular music until the end of World War 2." Whatever source says that has innaccuratley conflated early and late Fascism in Italy. Italy was closed culturally from about 1936/7. Before that, Italy was quite open. Louis Armstrong toured Italy in 1935.

I finally put up a short item on Italian jazz, although in its current state it is kind of a rehash of what is in the main article. I made it a stub---needs work (which I shall get to sooner or later)---but at least it cleared out the last red link in the infobox. Jeffmatt 12:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] citation needed?

I disagree with some of those "citation needed" inserts. It is not generally necessary to cite common knowledge--such as the most popular song festival in Italy. In any event, I'll see what I can do. Jeffmatt 08:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] small change to lead

I took the liberty of deleting the phrase "and perception" after "Instrumental and vocal classical music is an iconic part of Italian identity..." It was unclear to me in the sense that I think I know what it means ("...as well as the way in Italians are perceived by others") but I can't come up with a less wordy way of saying it--- "...and perception..." by itself makes it sound as if maybe the Italians are doing the perceiving. Small point, but we don't want give the nit-pickers a blank check.Jeffmatt 18:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] another change to lead?

I haven't made this one, but anticipating comments on the next FA-go-round similar to the first time, I suggest minor changes along the lines of: "...Italian innovation in musical scales, harmony, notation, and theater were necessary to the development of musical forms such as opera in the late 16th century and then later forms in European classical music, such as the symphony and concerto.

"Instrumental and vocal classical music is an iconic part of Italian identity, spanning experimental art music and international fusions to symphonic music and opera. Opera is integral to Italian musical identity, and though, by defintion, not "pop music" is nontheless a major segment of music that is popular."

Maybe that last part is clunky, but I am trying to find a way around the objection to calling opera "popular music" and yet show that opera commonly shows up in such pop formats as musical variety shows on Italian television, for example. Jeffmatt 07:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] imported styles

In the fifth paragraph of this section, there was half a sentence (mentioning the TV show "Sabato Sera"). I couldn't find the original in the history, so I reconstructed something plausible, I hope. Jeffmatt 07:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vasco Rossi

In the article is not present the roker Vasco Rossi. He is the gretest italian roker and the best seller cantautore in Italy but not very know outside of Italy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.110.20.97 (talk) 15:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] GA Pass

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, T Rex | talk 11:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Sanremofest.jpg

Image:Sanremofest.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Music history of Italy

I don't know if there's scope to look at this article and Music history of Italy as a whole, it feels like there must be scope to integrate them more elegantly than the seealso I've just added at the top of this one... FlagSteward (talk) 00:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

You're probably right, but it's a tough one. I was one of the two or three main contributors to this article, which got longer and longer and finally failed the peer review for FA, in my view, because no one could agree on whether to deal with "Italy" as a relatively new nation state (in the Music of (nation) series, or a very old cultural concept that would include all music from the Italian peninsula--ever!--(maybe even Etruscan barbershop quartets). We couldn't agree and there it sits.Jeffmatt (talk) 07:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Those Etruscan barbers could rock the place! There's a third way, which to me is a no-brainer. You get in a right pickle when trying to cut up broad cultural movements with arbitrary political events. For instance, Verdi was technically born a French citizen, although by the time of I Lombardi Parma was an independent duchy, which had been returned to the Bourbons by the time of La traviata and which had become part of a unified Italy by the time of Aida. In the real world, will the average Wikipedian music lover be interested in that kind of thing? If you are writing about a cultural movement, you should look at the broad sweep of "Italian-ness" rather than trying to keep up with the complicated politics. In that regard recent countries such as Italy and Germany make the Wikipedia convention of "XXXX of YYYY" rather meaningless, far better to replace "Music of Italy" with "Italian music" - as a WP:COMMONNAME there's not much doubt what that "means" to the average Wikipedian, whilst being fairly pedant-proof. If it doesn't fit the Music of ZZZZ framework, that's just tough, they'll just have to cope with Italian Music, like we have Italian wine for instance. However, I would regard what happened before the fall of Rome as a distinct culture, and so I'd put those Etruscan barbers in a "Music of European antiquity" article or some such, there's not much to link the Etruscans with Verdi other than geographical proximity. JMO anyway. FlagSteward (talk) 12:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't see how merging both articles to Italian music really solves anything, and I think there's a lot of doubt what that term means to people: Googling "Italian music" and "Frank Sinatra" gets more hits than "Italian music" and "Zucchero", or does Zucchero not count because his music (rock) is American and not Italian? Are recent immigrants to Italy part of "Italian music"? What about Sicilian or Sardinian music? Are they "Italian music" or are they distinct? Is the answer different if you're talking about traditional launeddas or "Italian"-style opera or hip hop? Even if your answer to these questions is clear, many people will argue the point. "Music of Italy" has the advantage of being clear in scope - Italy is a country with well-defined borders, and anything relevant to the musical lives of people who live within those borders is part of the "music of Italy". "Italian" is far more vague than "Italy". Tuf-Kat (talk) 23:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Also, I don't see any value to the "dab block"-style pointer to music history of Italy; there's a link to it right over in the box, and it could be worked into the lead more gracefully than at the top of the article. Tuf-Kat (talk) 23:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Just thought I'd point out that, whether the topic is "Italian music" or "Music of Italy", the nationality of a person like say Verdi is really irrelevant. If he played a role in Italian music/Music of Italy, it doesn't matter if he's Japanese and never been to or even heard of Italy, he can still be covered. Tuf-Kat (talk) 15:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello, TUF-KAT! How are you? Long time, no hear. (Ah, and hasn't it been peaceful?!) I still don't see a solution to the problem. I think we had it pretty well knocked, though. Longish with some history and some modern stuff. You know, not a bad compromise. I just happened to look in on the article for the first time in a while and saw FlagSteward's comment and responded. I hope you are well. Greetings from Naples. Jeffmatt (talk) 14:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm glad to be back around! I was busy with work, then became unemployed, and I am now (unfortunately for Wikipedia) re-employed... I'll probably re-bring this article to FAC in the nearish future, but I have some other stuff to do first probably. I think it'll make it through sooner or later. FACers like to complain about stuff, but if there's a consensus among the article's editors to handle something a particular way, they'll usually let it go through eventually, even if it takes a few tries. Anyway, it's good to see you again too! Greetings from Maryland, Tuf-Kat (talk) 15:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)