Talk:Music of Australia/Archive 1

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pre-2003 talk

Don't take the above too seriously. The following bands or performers all deserve mention in there somewhere IMHO, perhaps more than some mentioned: The Sound Unlimited Posse (not perhaps all that notable in absolute terms, but the only Australian hip-hop group to have commercial success until MC Trey), Cold Chisel, Skyhooks, INXS, silverchair, Kylie Minogue, Paul Kelly, Powderfinger, Little River Band, Hunters And Collectors, Crowded House (though they're really more New Zealand's), John Farnham, Sherbet, Russell Morris, Midnight Oil, Men At Work, The Seekers, Slim Dusty, The Bee Gees, AC/DC, You Am I, even The Louisville Sluggers (well, maybe not yet, but give'em an album and some radio play :)).

Much more influential musical artists (influential, as in , pioneering in styles that many other musicians including much more famous ones might name-check) than either list above (excepting, say the Easybeats, Bee Gees and AC/DC) might include: The Birthday Party, Nick Cave, The Saints, The MC5, The Atlantics, The Scientists, The Beasts of Bourbon, The Triffids, The Go-Betweens, Dead Can Dance, and The Laughing Clowns. Most of these date from the late 70s and 80s.

I don't recognise all those names, but the ones that I do recognise certainly deserve deserve recognition. I do however think think you might be wearing the blinkers slightly. Just because you mightn't like Slim Dusty or John Farnham doesn't mean they don't a prominent place in the story of Australian popular music, any more than leaving out Celine Dion or Dolly Parton would be appropriate for a history of American popular music. --Robert Merkel
MC5 are from Detroit

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.212.59.132 (talk) 21:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

A band that surely shouldn't be forgotten is Yothu Yindi, because they are probably the best known mixed aboriginal-white band in Australia. -- G_from_B

Agreed. We really should make an attempt to write this article properly - and whilst we're at it also mention pre-1950's stuff (the Scottish-Irish bush ballads, for instance, and the traditional songs of the Aboriginal peoples), and mention stuff outside the pop tradition (Rolf Harris :), but more seriously has Australia made any significant contribution to the world of jazz (probably not), classical music (a few great opera singers, perhaps, a couple of decent opera companies, symphony orchestras etc, who perform some new Australian music every so often) etc. --Robert Merkel
See also : Australia

rewrites

I removed:

From the early 1990s Directions in Groove (Sydney) combined groove jazz and towards the end of the 1990s drum and bass elements, a track followed in the late 1990s and early 2000s by The Hive (renamed The Bagsmen in 2002 to avoid confusion with a Swedish-based band with a similar name).

Because I can't figure out what it means. Can someone clarify, such as by splitting into two or three separate sentences with subjects? Tuf-Kat

Yep, it was terribly written, I agree. This is what happens when you wikipedia too late at night! I was really just trying to get my thoughts down quickly before I got distracted. I'm glad somebody cares enough about this article to help rewrite it. I have now have rewritten it more clearly, I hope. Lexor 21:23 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Gondwanaland

Could someone add some words about Gondwanaland?

zig 20:01, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

article organisation

This article has become chock full of info, but it is atrociously organized. I will try to get around to it soon, but it needs some TLC ASAP. Tuf-Kat 05:35, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

hi, tuf-kat I have attempted to make a dent in the structure, hopefully it's better, it's great that dunk58 has contributed so much raw material, it just needs a few little wikifications... ;-) clarkk 10:44, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

possible copyright violation

i reverted the recent edits back to my last edit, because the edits by the anonymous ip user(s?) 211.29.*.* may be copyright violations from the cited link at:

some parts are clearly paraphrased, other parts are verbatim. either way, it's a violation of copyright because it's a derivative work (paraphrasing does not make it ok). it is ok to use the facts from the article, or even quote very brief extracts, but paraphrasing or minor modifications it does not prevent it from being an infringing use. (see wikipedia:copyrights for more info).

if the anonymous ip user(s) in question did actually write the material on the site, and is contributing it to wikipedia, then that's great! but then please indicate that you did so, and indicate that you are submitting the text under the GFDL, and indicate some way that we can verify this.

thanks clarkk 09:50, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Actually, paraphrasing may well make it okay for factual information. - David Gerard 12:47, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
yes it would be if it was very short excerpts like such and such a band started in 1972, but the text in question was large slabs (many paragraphs) of narrative following the same trajectory, and most of it was actually verbatim with some minor paraphrasing, IANAL but i'm sure it would be considered copyright infringement. anyway, the point is now moot, given that user:dunks58 has clarified (below) that he is the author of the site in question and he is contributing it under the GFDL, so a big thank you to him!! clarkk 19:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

clarkk, david g. and others - my abject apologies -- I'm new to Wikipedia and it was late, yadda, yadda -- I forgot to log in when I edited this page. my username is dunks58 -- I'm Duncan Kimball (Sydney NSW) and also webmaster of the Milesago site. Consequently there *should* be no copyright violation involved in my edit since I am also the sole author of the webpage referred to above. Sorry for that oversight - hope this will clarify. My email is <email removed> if you need to contact me.

And I'd LOVE to turn more of those red names to blue, david, thanks! Cheers to all. Wikipedia rocks.

thanks User:dunks58 00:22 4 May 2003

duncan, thank you so much! it fills a much needed void. i wasn't looking forward to having to fill in that era myself, given i know next to nothing about stuff pre-late 1970s (except very hazily). are you willing to contribute the other articles about bands on your site too? clarkk 19:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
Duncan - if you're happy for the other stuff from your site to go up on Wikipedia, point us at the articles that are yours and we'll go for it! - David Gerard 19:31, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

new articles from Milesago; Ian McFarlane

David & clarkk - I'll beging firing articles at you shortly I'm about to take a redundancy from my current job and looking forward to an extended break and getting stuck into Wiki in a big way.

I'll have to be circumspect, though, since a number of articles rely on other secondary sources like Ian McFarlane's 'Encyclopedia Of Australian Rock & Pop'. I'm in touch with Ian and he is OK with me using his work for Milesago, but may be less sanguine about it being hauled up onto Wikipedia, so I'll have to run it by him on a case-by-case basis. Also there are a number of articles that are wholly or partly written by others, which I've been given permission to add to my site, so again would need to clear with each author before reproducing here.

Also, I think most will need drastic pruning (verbose? moi??) before being suitable for wikipedia. I'm perusing your nifty style notes, david, and will put them to good use. Pity we didn't 'virtually' meet earlier as I was in London for 3 weeks late last year. :(

Anyway I really appreciate the feedback and the warm welcome and look forward to a fruitful wikillaboration!

FYI I've added stuff to the following pages:

- triple J - Midnight Oil - Divinyls - Hunters & Collectors - Hoodoo Gurus

and have made first stabs at pages on:

- Lillian Roxon

and

- Lighthouse Keepers -- some of info on this page is cribbed from McFarlane but I know Greg Appel and the family personally and was a member of One Head Jet for several years, so I figure Ian won't mind.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

Cheers

Dunks

I see nothing wrong with cribbing from McFarlane, as long as it's one of multiple sources :-) The Scientists started as a crib of McFarlane, but with a pile of other sources mixed in. One source may be plagiarism, but multiple is definitely research.
Although I guess each relevant McFarlane article should be in the external links for each band's article. Whether it was used or not, really.
In other notes, I retrieved my old copies of Party Fears from Australia and am preparing to make the scans available, probably on a subpage of http://rocknerd.org/ . This'll be fun! - David Gerard 10:48, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

50k

This article is at 50k, so I'm going to reorganize, spin off some subjects into new articles, etc. Tuf-Kat 04:03, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Aussie Goth

While not a center of goth music in any sense, two bands that might be considered adding are Ikon, and Big Electric Cat. Though they may not have pop success they, especially Ikon, are notable within the subculture. I of course would not be offended if they are not added. They certainly don't have the widespread influence or notoriety of Dead Can Dance. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Khirad 04:38, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

to do?

Some things I was thinking should go here, or do they deserve their own articles?

  • Development/history of music charts (I'm sure ARIA wasn't the first, plus other charts like AIR)
  • Development/history of music awards (ditto, plus there are many more awards that exist or have existed than [could ever be] listed in the template).

pfctdayelise 15:28, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

NPOV

"In terms of music that is actually good, bands like Architecture in Helsinki, Augie March, The Avalanches, Because of Ghosts, Expatriate and Snowman began to spring up to the delight of many." I live in Australia and I've never heard of any of those bands. I don't dispute that to many they are "good" but this is awfully subjective, and also implies that the previously mentioned bands/singers aren't "good."TMac 01:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tim
I guess it's sad that some of our best new bands are more loved overseas than in Australia itself, while the bands that are heavily promoted on Australian radio/TV like Jet often get pretty mediocre reviews outside of the country. I find it strange that you haven't at least heard of The Avalanches or Augie March though, they've had a lot of coverage here.
Anyway,
Architecture in Helsinki:
http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/a/architectureinhelsinki-incase.shtml
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=2922
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/a/architecture-in-helsinki/in-case-we-die.shtml
Augie March:
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/a/augie-march/strange-bird.shtml
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:fl5g8qczbtv4
Avalanches:
http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/avalanches/sinceileftyou
Because of Ghosts:
http://www.halo-17.net/6187.html
Expatriate:
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/reviews/music/3561/
Snowman:
http://www.xpressmag.com.au/archives/000913.php
Note that most of these reviews are from non-Australian sites.
Expatriate, Ghosts and Snowman are newer (only EP length releases out so far) but once they release full albums I would expect similar reviews.
I have removed it again. Please see WP:NPOV and WP:CITE. If those bands are worth mentioning here, then it's worth explaining their notability and importance using an encyclopedic tone. When they are incorporated into the article, it should be in the form of useful information, as opposed to a list of names surrounded by vague claims of goodness. Tuf-Kat 08:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
You're never heard of Architecture in Helsinki, Augie March or the Avalanches? :o (The others have just been tagged in after, AFAICT).
  • AiH were nominated for best Adult Contemporary ARIA 2005. (A very odd nomination category.) They have had some interest O/S.
  • Augie March... wow... have released three well-reviewed albums, the latest of which debuted in the top 10 (Moo, you bloody choir) and has been nominated for a J Award.
  • The Avalanches are actually more popular in the UK I believe, they're certainly one of our biggest dance-type acts internationally. Only released Since I Left You so far but man, it's a classic album.
But "music that is actually good" - while I rather agree, it's a bad line for an encyclopedia. :) pfctdayelise (translate?) 22:15, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism?

The opening paragraph bears remarkable similarity to this page http://www.answers.com/topic/music-of-australia someone is at fault.

Please sign posts by adding four tildes after your post. To explain, many websites (maybe more than a dozen) actually copy/reprint Wikipedia articles word for word onto their own sites. I believe this may be the case with the site you've found. Badagnani 07:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Not very encylopedic

I came to this article as a starting point to find some things out about Australian colonial music, and I found that aparently music didn't exist in Australia between 1700 and 1950. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not street press. If an artist is mentioned, it should be because they are INFLUENTIAL on the development of the various musical genres in Australia, not because they are 'good' or talented. And in an article this broad, they really should've made a large contribution. I can't believe Savage Garden are mentioned in this article and Banjo Paterson isn't. Sure, they might have been successful when measured by album sales, but how have they contributed musically or culturally (regardless of anyone's views on how good their music is). In my oppinion, they pretty much made the same style of pop music that was already around and are pretty much irrelevant to any serious study of Australian music/musical context. Just cos they were very good at it doesn't warrant inclusion in article this broad. Molly Meldrum's production on "The Real Thing" contributed more to the development of popular music than Savage Garden's entire career, successful though it was. What about music of the war period? Songs like 'Rroad to Gundigai' among others that have made a lasting cultural impact on this country are *not even mentioned*!

This isn't an article about music of Australia. It doesn't deserve any title like that. Perhaps you could change the title to 'Music in Australia lately that people like.'

As well as an encyclopedia, it's also a wiki. Therefore if it's missing something, you should go ahead and add it. Directly improve it. Go on! pfctdayelise (translate?) 05:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian music

A new project page is being setup. If anyone is interested in lending a hand, please come on over. —Moondyne 00:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

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Australian Rock

I've made some minor changes to the rock section of this article, added some additional text and corrected several glaring innaccuracies: Sunbury was NOT the first Australian rock festival (it was Ourimbah in 1970) and Mushroom was by no means the first independent Aussie label. There had been hundreds of local independent labels over the preceding decades and there were dozens of independent pop and rock labels in the twenty years before Mushroom, including Leedon, Clarion, Spin, Go!!, Astor, W&G and many more. Festival was also arguably an "independent" label, although this is debatable -- it was admittedly owned by Murdoch's News Ltd (although this was until the 1990s an Australian company) but it was independent of overseas control, unlike the other major Australian-based labels -- Polygram, EMI, CBS, Warner and RCA. Dunks 00:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)