Talk:Mushroom picking in Slavic culture

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Why didn't I thought of that before? Great work, two thumbs up! I hope you'll spend some time to correct the cyrillic names, they do not show up properly. Also, would you mind if I added some Polish and Czech names as well? Perhaps we could do a table or set of tables instead of the lists we have now? Halibutt 13:31, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)

Yea, I was hoping someone would suggest more languages. I was thinking of maybe some sort of reference table, where the paragraphs have numeric references to the table. Any bright ideas? And yes, I have to convert the Cyrillic characters into Unicode at some point, you don't know of any fast way to do it by any chance do you? --Aramgutang 13:37, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Ooooof, I did it, converted all the Russian names into Unicode. Had to write a small PHP script to speed things up :) Let me know if you still have trouble viewing the names. --Aramgutang 15:06, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Nice work! If you're looking for more translations, I could quiz my mother and add some Ukrainian names to the table. —Michael Z. 20:13, 2004 Aug 28 (UTC)

I could add the czech names for mushrooms, if desired. Bodlina, the czech wikipedist, --83.208.83.66 16:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


Hello, I was very pleased to find this article, since the pastime of mushroom picking is virtually unknown in the States. However, the article claims to talk about the culture of mushroom picking, but most of it appeared to me to be a discussion of the various types of mushrooms. As far as culture is concerned, perhaps quoting some pieces of literature would be appropriate? If am not mistaken, there is a mushroom-picking scene in Adam Mickiewicz's epic poem "Pan Tadeusz" that describes 19th century Polish nobility going mushroom picking.

Sorry if the information is not fully satisfactory, that's all I know on the subject :) I know there isn't that much on culture, but the point is that the mushroom descriptions are meant to be interpreted as if written from a Slavic viewpoint, and is basically common knowledge in Slavic countries that has been passed down by generations. The thing is, I had never encountered the information in English, and I felt that an English version of the knowledge was needed, so I wrote it. Also note the quote "this page is also intended to serve as a reference for interpreting Russian mycology-related information" in the article. You are welcome to add any literature quotes you like. --Aramգուտանգ 03:29, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Cutting mushrooms is wrong

Literature and picking guides also frequently offer reminders to always cut a mushroom with a blade, rather than pulling it out, and to never kick or otherwise destroy mushrooms one does not want, thus preserving the forest ecosystem.

Experienced mushroom pickers never cut them with a blade! They rather grab it at the base with their hand and gently screw them out of the ground. If they take the blade for mushuoom picking, it is used only for cleaning or checking for worms inside mushroom. Cutting with the blade could be possibly dangerous for the whole fungus, since the remaining part of the leg (or trunk: don't know the words) of basidiocarp may rot. To put it in short words: don't pull out, dont kick, dont cut, but screw. I'd edit that myself, but I don't trust my English skills :) A.J. 18:11, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Do you know that...

...for now Polish wiki does't have a article about mushroom picking? It's time to create one! :) A.J. 18:20, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


Ummm, I'm no mycologist, but from the little I know I don't think that the removal of the fruiting body (visible mushroom part) is going to 'kill' the organism..


- Micah

[edit] NPOV ??

The following:

The knowledge for identifying edible mushrooms is usually passed on through generations, however is usually far from sufficient to reliably avoid mushroom poisoning according to Western standards. On the contrary, Western views on mushroom hunting are often viewed as overly paranoid by most Slavic societies, and sometimes ridiculed.

Seems a bit biased to me.

1.What sources claim that the knowledge for identifying is far from sufficient in Slavic countries? 2.What exactly are Western standards? 3.Last time I checked Slavic countries are a part of the so-called 'Western Culture'. Whilst I see the distinction you are trying ti make, I think that it should be worded differently. 4.Western views ridiculed in Slavic countries? Sources? Family fables don't count. ;) Chelman 10:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the wording was just unfortunate, and have made an attempt to improve it (though I left the word "Western" intact -- feel free to rework that). The standard used in most American mycological societies is that if you can't identify to species, you have no business eating the mushroom; none of my Russian friends or relatives would be so exacting, and they find the whole idea of an organized "society" of mushroom enthusiasts funny (one of the many mushroom-related things they laugh at us about). Also, the mantra "if in doubt, throw it out" would more likely be rendered by a Slavic collector as: "if in doubt, but it isn't anything that will kill you, and if it looks and smells edible, then try a little bit of it". Keno 21:54, 22 Feb 2006 (UTC)

the "sometimes ridiculed" part is certainly true. I'm from the Czech republic, so I know it. The image of a foreigner, hunting mushrooms laden with books, trying to identify each single mushroom he sees is the source of many jokes here, believe me. Bodlina, the czech wikipedist, --83.208.83.66 16:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the NPOV issue is closed here, so I've taken the liberty of removing the template. sconzey 23:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The NPOV was recently re-added, and I support that. In fact, I'm going to re-add it. There are so many wrong things about this article that I don't know where to start. Nothing is referenced or sourced, it's all original research WP:OR. The russian translations are unnecessary cultural bias, and the article reads like an editorial field guide WP:NOT. This article should be merged with the main article and condensed in a subsection. The rest should be either thrown away or blended in the main article without cultural bias, as most of this article applies universally. The funniest thing (thankfully it has been removed) was the caption of the picture, "Polish mushroom". Give me a break! PizzaMargherita 22:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gimme a Break

Here's what I did: 1)took out extra-long descriptions of mushrooms. this is an article about mushroom picking in slavic countries, NOT an article about fungus groups. 2)settled controversy with whether or not cutting mushrooms is wrong. either way, slavs DO cut mushrooms with knifes. it goes in the article.

[edit] This article should be merged

Hi! I don't know what is a template. But I think, that this article should be merged with Mushroom hunting. I'm russian and I don't see the differences between picking of mushrooms here, and hunting for them at West. Dims 02:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Why merge it? The point is not the distinction between picking and hunting, but the fact that this article focuses on the activity/tradition in Slavic cultures. Alexander 007 05:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
So, let us add articles "diving in Slavic culture", "skating in Slavic culture", "football in Slavic culture", etc. Why not? You devise theories about mysterious russian soul yourself and then trying to unriddle it. But the secret is that it is no secret at all! We hunt mushrooms as others do. Uff! :) In any case, even if article is culturological, it should be renamed "mushroom hunting in slavic countries". Excuse my English. Dims 21:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree, most of this article is not specific to Slavic cultures at all! It looks more like an unnecessary fork. PizzaMargherita 06:00, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I tend towards keep separate but both need a substantial rewrite to highlight differences.Cas Liber 04:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
There's hardly any useful any encyclopaedic information in the other article. Let's merge as mushroom picking. Bendž|Ť 08:38, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I am kind of bored of dealing with high POV-laden issues as Nordic race, Historical Persecution by Christians or Nazi occultism. I've got some experience on this, soi merging and a little clean up shouldn't take too long. Zara1709 (talk) 11:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Full Moon

Does anyone know if there is any truth in the belief that mushrooms grow most at full moon? Is there any rational explantion?

It seems to me, that it is not truth. Moon was often used as natural calendar for agricultural and hunting purpuses. Also, moon is natural source of light. So, some moon-based rule may was derived for mushrooms, but then detailes was forgotten and the rule was degenerated to simple full moon statement. Dims 21:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] do so at your own risk

I feel inclined to remove the last paragraph from the intro because it's redundant with the General disclaimer; and Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer and Wikipedia:Risk disclaimer. If noone objects, I'll make the change. See also: Wikipedia:No disclaimer templates (while this paragraph is not a template, it works like a disclamer template). --Zoz (t) 16:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poisonous together with edible ?!

I think we should add sign to the lines of poisonous (only poisonous to Slavs :), not in Western sense). My hairs lifted when i saw Бледная поганка in a section titled Commonly collected mushrooms! --80.92.251.242 17:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Again: what is the difference between western and eastern sense of poisonousness??? Some objects are suitable for food, some are not. It is common for all humankind! Dims 21:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree, this article is a piece of cultural bias. PizzaMargherita 06:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Poisonous vs non-poisonous isn't always clear cut.
Some mushrooms (Lactarius Necator comes to mind) are nowadays suspected of being mutagenic. They are edible if you blanch them well and don't eat too much. Whether that's poisonous or not is a bit of a matter of opinion.
As the article mentions there are species that will give most people an upset stomach if you eat too much of them. A lot of genus lactarius are bitter or peppery; a little is good eats, too much gives you what amounts to a food poisoning.
Is alcohol poisonous? A handful of habaneros can kill you, are those poisonous?
See also the lead in the article on poison. It's not as simple as "poison" vs "non-poison". Weregerbil 13:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, what makes a mushroom poisonous is not very clear, and sometimes diferent varieties of what was considered a species or group can be distinguished. Mushrooms in diferent climates and soils will have diferent tastes and properties like Lactarius deliciosus in France or in Catalonia. Last month a man died in france for eating a mushroom that people here in catalunya eaten frequently and is a known edible mushroom. And about the long descriptions, it seems to me that descriptions passed down by oral tradition is part of the popular culture, even though they might seem to pertain more to the scientific sphere then the cultural sphere. And anyhow, though I understand the distinction, science is culture. Not only literature in the traditional sense is culture. But I dont know how relevant that is.

The issue is that similar (or identical) looking fungi in different countries may infact vary widely in their edibility.Cas Liber 03:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mushroom picking among Ukrainian diaspora

I can vouch for this article and say mushroom picking is a favorite activity in my family in SE Saskatchewan. We don't use guidebooks, it is all passed on in an oral tradition... and I am 4th generation Ukrainian-Canadian. Additionally, is there a reason why Ukraine is omitted from the listed countries? Another tangent for exploration in this article might include folk medicinal properties of mushrooms. --70.64.11.84 17:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.64.11.84 (talk) 17:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Merge

I feel a merge with Mushroom hunting is long overdue. This page contains nothing that could not be summed up in a section on the main mushroom hunting page. It looks like others have agreed but no one has taken the initiative to make the merge happen. I plan on revamping the main page as it is in need of some serious work. If no one objects I will merge the page in the next couple of days. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 22:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

My feeling is that the topic is deserving of a separate article. While the article has some serious problems - notably a shortage of discussion of the actual culture of mushrooming - it is without a doubt a significant and widespread feature of many Slavic cultures. Aside from being an extremely widespread activity, mushroom picking recurs consistently in literature, paintings, songs, popular culture of Eastern Europe to an extent that I, at least, have not witnessed even in those Western European cultures which lack the fungophobia of the English-speaking world, such as Italy or Southern France. If Wikipedia is large enough to support an entire WikiProject devoted to the arguably much more fringe phenomenon of Furry Fandom, surely it can bear the weight of an activity that inspired some of the finest writing and significant leisure time of Alexander Pushkin, Adam Mickiewicz, Leo Tolstoy, Anton Chekhov, Vladimir Nabokov, Milan Kundera, as well as countless millions of their respective compatriots. That said, the article definitely needs a shift in emphasis from a redundant listing of species to examples, data and discussion on the cultural phenomenon. Eliezg (talk) 11:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Agree. Good way of putting it. Tricky as there are only a very few editors working on fungi at present, so it may be a while..cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wow.

Ok, I'll just be repeating stuff that's been said before on this talk page, but the opening... Wow. "The Slavic way"? "Slavic literature"? Field guides are frowned upon and basically unnecesary, since mushroom picking is taught in the family, but the last sentence still makes reference to literature and picking guides?

You do realize you're talking about a huge landmass and various diverse groups of population when you frivoulosly throw around expressions like "the Slavic way"? I'm from Slovenia, and my family's been picking mushrooms since forever. I do it, too. We don't use a field guide, but then, we've narrowed down the selection of mushrooms we pick to something like 10 of the best types of mushrooms we can find (mostly boleti and catharelli), so we don't need one at hand; but we do have many in our home library. I haven't made any comparisons between "Western field guides" and "Slavic field guides", but a lot of the mushrooms in our field guides are marked as poisonous. As a kid, I have been taught not to even touch mushrooms if I didn't know for sure what they were. My parents are members of the local mushroom picking club, one of many. And all of the above is pretty commonplace in Slovenia (and, as far as I know, in neighbouring Croatia, too).

Last time I checked, Slovenia was a Slavic country. So whatever happened to the Slavic way here?

My point: saying there is a "Slavic way" and "Western way" of picking mushrooms is ridiculous. I'm sure there are cultural differences from country to country, but labeling them with a broad label such as "Slavic" or "Western" is inaccurate, to say the least. I say merge this article into mushroom hunting.TomorrowTime (talk) 13:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)