Talk:Musō Jikiden Eishin-ryū

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[edit] Eishin Ryu Mon?

I've noticed that this mon seems to be worn by quite a few Eishin Ryu iaidoka. Why is this? What's the history of it? How did it become associated with Eishin Ryu? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.11.148.226 (talk) 12:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ZNIR Focus?

This summary of Eishinryu tends to be very ZNIR centred, especially with regard to the list of Soke after Hyakuren Kono. I would suggest that we make some attempt to reflect at least the three major federations (ZNKR, ZNIR and DNIR) in the pages.

  • Somehow the balance between all of them is going to be hard to maintain. Each one of the different lineage groups tend to believe their way is right, and that all others are not. Is there possibly a way we can gracefully include all of the major linages, without going crazy about mutli-revisions and not produce some sort of war out of it? I am in the ZNIR group (well my ranking comes from Seitokai actually) so I know what I have added is mostly true of ZNIR and the MJER that I study. But I am aware that there are other variations on the theme, and other groups who claim the same style name with different path from Oe-soke. I've only vaugely aware of Dai Nippon Iaido Renmei (DNIR) other than it was formed in 1974. (70.122.231.223 10:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC))
    • I like the idea of focusing on ZNKR, ZNIR and DNIR, and then perhaps an "Unaffilliated Groups". I'm also ZNIR (since 1990) but have also briefly visited a DNIR dojo outside of Japan to practice. DNIR was a split off group due to Fukui Torao Seisan becoming Soke. I knew Fukui Soke and now am a member of his son's dojo. There was much controversy and when I started Iaido in 1990, there was still negative talk amoung the higher ranking sensei about this. I think if we can maintain objectivity and have some DNIR and ZNKR to become involved this article could be a comprehensive and definitive article.--Jdcounselling 08:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
    • To my knowledge, ZNKR has no authoritative control over MJER or any koryū system. It only controls its own koryū derived ZenKenRen Iai and Jo kata. This is addressed on the main iaidō page now. I can't speak for the other federations but I'm sure traditionalists would object to their identification as being "in control" as well, since they are all modern constructions. Just because a shihan is a member of a particular federation doesn't mean that it is officially endorsed or under federation control. I think it would be best to list where the splits and disputes in the lineage exist in a neutral manner to keep everyone happy. Where multiple branches are using the same name, delinate them as XYZ-ha MJER. Red phase 23:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
  • While I agree that the history's will never all line up and it is hard to be objective, I think we need to try. Emphasis should be placed on the validity of ALL Kongen no Maki holders, making a point to mention that -- even though each and every individual will not be discussed here in detail -- what is posted isn't definitive of all practitioners.
    --Kenkyuukai 13:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
  • I think focusing on the various federations is a mistake. Federations are a way of connecting arts and artists and helping them continue their respective lineages, but have no direct connection to these lineages. This is a place to pass on information about a koryu; the individual affiliation of each instructor should be secondary. The koryu lineage, with the awarding of Kongen no Maki to upwards of 16 students of Oe Masamichi, is confusing enough without placing undue focus on what the modern federations are doing [differently].
    --Kenkyuukai 13:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should we seperate the kata/waza/techniques and put them in a new article?

What the topic says. The list of kata and the works is taking up alot of space in this article. I think we can afford to move them to a new article and expand the other sections of Eishin-ryu instead. Any yays or nays? Fred26 20:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I would agree to that, but we really need some of the respected iaido sensei and high ranking praticitioners to shed some of their history of the art to the article. This is hard, though, as much of MJER has been, and will be, kept "within the family" (70.122.231.223 10:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC))
  • I agree with moving the waza list to a new article. If other Remei are represented in the main article then the differences in the respective waza "lists" can also be reflected in the waza article.--Jdcounselling 07:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I can understand tidying up, but did the Paired Kata lists get moved anywhere or just deleted? Kata names aren't secret and I'm in favor of spreading as much knowledge about the lesser known parts of MJER as possible.--Kenkyuukai 13:01, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

I know some of, but not all, of my own style's lineage and history, but not well enough to post all of it without verifying it first. If you study MJER, regardless of your particular governing affiliation (znir/znkr/dnir/dnkr/etc etc), and know history of your affiliation, or your lineage, etc... please add it (here or article). I know we all believe in our own lineage strongly, but hopefully through all of it, we can find some common truths, or find a way to incorporate all of it into the story that is MJER today. (70.122.231.223 10:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] External links

I have removed the club links because such a list does not meet wikipedia's policy on external links, you may also want to read this info on directories of links. --Nate1481( t/c) 08:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I noticed you have removed all the club links for a second time. People had added all these club links under the 'External Links' category originally and it was basically a big mess. I categorised them all by country and put them under a 'Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Clubs' header that someone else had created. I realize this was a mistake as per 'Policy' external links should go under the 'External Links' heading, so I then placed them under a subheading of 'External links'. Again you deleted them.
The links do take up a lot of space but I don't see why their inclusion is incorrect. Clubs are very much relevant to the topic and if people are interested in MJER then why shouldn't it be made easier for them to find a club on a resource such as this. Maybe they don't belong in the 'External Links' section of the main article but I take exception with them being deleted.
If you have a better suggestion about where these should be or how they should be formatted then please make it or put them where they belong rather than just deleting information that people will find useful.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.178.158 (talk • contribs)
If you read the second one it basically states that wikipedia is not a directory of links. If (for neutrality EVERY club was included so as to avoid advertising one over another, then the list would be very large. If there is an external directory of clubs that would be reasonable to link, but if we directly include ever club (& for other arts too) there would be nothing but links. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I have placed a link in the 'External Links' section to the DMOZ open directory to what I consider to be the most relevant section. Hopefully those people that took the time to add the now deleted links to this wiki will add their clubs to the DMOZ directory. The problem is there is no single external directory of MJER clubs in existance that I'm aware of so now all these MJER clubs will be clumped together with 'Kendo and Iaido' on DMOZ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.178.158 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 12 October 2007 (UTC)