Talk:Murray Bookchin

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[edit] nonsensical sentence

In the Murray Bookchin article, in this paragraph:

"Through the fifties and sixties, Bookchin worked in a number of working class situations -- including a stint as a railroad stevedore. He began teaching in the late 60s at the Free University. a counter-cultural 60s era Manhattan based institution. This led to a tenured position at Ramapo State College in Mahwah, NJ. At the same time, he co-founded 1971 Bo the Institute for Social Ecology at Goddard College in Vermont."

The last sentence doesn't make sense.

Michelle Meaders 67.101.88.27 13:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It's been fixed. Rodparkes 05:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Private Bookchin quote

I heard Bookchin saying this in the 1984 years anarchist festival in Venice:

"The working class movement in America died in the 1940's. I know it. I was there.I saw it happen."

A strong quotation from a strong individual. And the message of his death came to me from Wikipedia!

Jerker Nordlund , Sweden —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.228.211.82 (talk • contribs)

[edit] How to describe him?

I am not sure that the description of Bookchin as a "libertarian socialist" in the opening paragraph gives the correct impression. In current American usage, "libertarian" tends to be applied to those who reject governmental interference in both social and economic matters (see Libertarianism), including those who report private property as sacrosanct. Many who use the label are ultra-free-marketeers, certainly not socialists.

Although Bookchin ceased to classify himself as an anarchist late in life, his philosophy for most of his life was broadly within the anarcho-syndicalist tradition of Proudhon ("property is theft") and Kropotkin, and that may be a better label for him (in so far as such an individual thinker can be subjected to a label). His greatest achievement lies in synthesising this tradition with modern ecological awareness. Rodparkes 05:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

In an interview with Harbinger in 2000, he described himself as a "libertarian socialist," ("I decided to go beyond Marxism and became a libertarian socialist"), an "eco-anarchist" and a "libertarian." He refers to libertarianism and libertarian municipalism throughout the interview. Here's an excerpt with probably the best summary of how he saw his political views near the end of his life:
DV: You have called your approach anarchism. What do you mean by that concept?
MB: Today I prefer the word communalism, by which I mean a libertarian ideology that, as I said, includes the best of the anarchist tradition as well as the best in Marx. I think neither Marxism nor anarchism alone is adequate for our times: a great deal in both no longer applies to today's world. We have to go beyond the economism of Marx and beyond the individualism that is sometimes latent, sometimes explicit in anarchism. Marx's, Proudhon's, and Bakunin's ideas were formed in the nineteenth century. We need a left libertarian ideology for our own time, not for the days of the Russian and Spanish Revolutions.
The overriding problem is to change the structure of society so that people gain power. The best arena to do that is the municipality — the city, town, and village — where we have an opportunity to create a face-to-face democracy. We can transform local government into popular assemblies where people can discuss and make decisions about the economy and society in which they live. When we get power at the neighborhood level in a town or city, we can confederate all the assemblies and then confederate those towns and cities into a popular government — not a state (which is an instrument of class rule and exploitation), but a government, where the people have the power. This is what I call communalism in a practical sense...[1]
Of the various terms he uses, "libertarian socialist" is the broadest and best known. While he seemed (at least in this interview) to be most sympathetic to the term "libertarian municipalism" to describe his views, "libertarian municipalist" is not a commonly used term, nor did he call himself that. In balance, "libertarian socialist" does seem best, as its breadth seems to best encompass his views. Sunray 07:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I think the missing word in the description, which he uses in the interview, is "left". Right wing libertarians are a completely different animal, and Bookchin would not have recognised much common ground with followers of Milton Friedman or Ayn Rand who also use the libertarian label. But maybe the word "socialist" takes care of that angle. Rodparkes 03:39, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Note that Ayn Rand is not a "ring-wing libertarian". Examples of rightist libertarians are Lew Rockwell and Justin Raimondo. Rand tried to create her own comprehensive philosophy and her minarchist politics were simply the extension of the philosophy into the political arena; it was neither leftist nor rightist, and in fact the Randroids do not call themselves libertarians at all. 12.65.66.93 16:19, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


The fact remains that throughout much of his life he called himself an Anarchist and this is matched by the bulk of his writings. In later life he sort to distance himself from the individualist/right-wing forms of Anarchism, the "libertarian socialist" label is not backed up by evidence nor used by himself, all the above quotes define a form of anarchist thought. Jleske (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Former anarchists

For some reason, Bookchin is contained the the category Former anarchists. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that this is wrong.

My understanding of the category is that it is for persons who ceased being anarchists while still living (e.g. Herbert Spender), and not including those anarchists who simply died (e.g. Lysander Spooner). After all, there are a lot of dead anarchists out there.

To my knowledge, Bookchin was still an anarchist at the time of his death, in which case I would suspect that his inclusion in that category would be simply wrong. Can anybody confirm whether or not Bookchin was still an anarchist at the time of his death?

Thanks,
Allixpeeke (talk) 23:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm almost certain he renounced anarchism during his lifetime. I don't have a ref handy, but I'm sure you'll find it in the article references. Regards, Skomorokh incite 23:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
This is correct. Bookchin renounced the anarchism in the late 90'ies, and started only using the expression SOCIAL ANARCHISM, (he wrote a pamphlet called "Social anarchism or lifestyle anarchism: the unbridgeable chasm", a few years after he renounced the use of the word anarchism alltogheter, and opted for the use of the label "communalist". A short, but deeply critical history can be found here: Being a bookchinite —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.71.78.3 (talk) 15:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
An important thing to remember is that he only renounced the use of the word "anarchism". His thinking had evolved some, but he held basically the same ideas as before when he referred to himself as an anarchist. It was a move to distance himself from the "lifestylist" and "individualist" currents within anarchism that he felt were irreconcilable with his understanding of libertarian socialism. At the end of the day, he still held the same beliefs, and drew heavily on past anarchists for inspiration, but no longer used the term.Sarcastic Avenger (talk) 17:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with your point that he did call himself an anarchist for much of his life and the article should reflect that. However, with respect to the term "libertarian socialist," please read the previous section, particularly his interview with Harbinger. Sunray (talk) 22:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

I find it odd that Murray is not granted the privilege of having every criticism that was written about him (there are many… Bob Black’s Anarchy After Leftism, David Watson’s Beyond Bookchin, and numerous harsh but comprehensive reviews in anarchist periodicals by Murray’s least favorite of all, John Zerzan and others) synthesized on his bio page. Zerzan and others are given a much more critical examination on Wikipedia. Would someone like to write this? As I figure I could, but that my bias would get in the way, I would enjoy it if someone did it before me. 74.92.133.146 (talk) 19:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)