Talk:Municipalities of Portugal

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Most of the text seems out of place in what should simply be a listing of the concelhos/municípios. It should be moved to the History of Portugal and Olivença articles.

Brooklyn Nellie 04:21, Dec 10, 2003 (UTC)

I dont see it like that, I see it as information about municipalities and i'm preparing some more. There's no Portuguese History, only an introduction to the Municipal History of Portugal.

Pedro

Dear Nricardo please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). This is not Portuguese wikipedia. I'm Portuguese and I also use accents, they are really useful, but english speaking people dont usually use it. So respect them. That's why, i created the list, without accents.

Pedro

Did you miss the part that said "Languages like Spanish or French should need no transliteration"? I assume Portuguese, being a Romance language, falls into that category. The only Portuguese cities that have common English names are Lisbon and Oporto.

BrooklynNellie

[edit] VENICE

VENICE is the correct English spelling of the Italian city with canals. Why do you insist on making correct items incorrect?

Brooklyn Nellie

In Italian, Venice is Venezia. In Portuguese Veneza. What's the point there? There are some specific accents in Portuguese that doesnt exist nether in French nor Spanish. I don't insist, i just want people to read it without difficulty. They don't know how to pronounce it! I'll read it and search for sources about that. If you find that's better to put accentuation so be it.

Pedro

The point is, you misspelled Venice. I corrected it, along with the names of the concelhos. You then reverted my changes, including the absolutely incorrect spelling of Venice. Brooklyn Nellie 23:50, Jan 5, 2004 (UTC)

Please see the articles on départements of France (D�partement) and Autonomous communities of Spain (Autonomous_communities_of_Spain). You will see in both that native accentuation is used. Brooklyn Nellie 00:01, Jan 6, 2004 (UTC)

Ok. In a few days, I'll make a new and different listening with Portuguese accentuation.

Pedro

[edit] Merger discussion

I have proposed that the article List of Municipalities of Portugal be merged into this one. The information is virtually the same, although List of Municipalities of Portugal is far more complete. Nevertheless, I think that in the case of a merger, Municipalities of Portugal should become the main article. I also suggest creating standards for this kind of articles (as you can see in Category:Lists_of_municipalities, there are just too many variations).--Húsönd 13:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey for the merger

  • Support as proposer.--Húsönd 13:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. These kinds of articles may begin as lists, but have the potential to become articles that include lists. Also, "Xs of Y", where X = a type of subdivision and Y = a country or territory, seems to be the standard format for articles on national administrative subdivisions. Regards, David Kernow 15:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC), abstaining 01:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose - First, this is a featured list, it was chosen as the best Wikipedia has to offer. When it was chosen to featured status it was just like it is now, merging featured content is not a good policy. Second, we have a broader article about the concept of municipality in Portugal, which needs do be developed, then we have the list. Concentrate your efforts in the development of that article instead of merging a wonderful 90Kb article into it. That would ruin both articles. 84.90.44.3 16:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Indeed the List of Municipalities article is featured and has great quality. A merged article would pretty much resemble the List of Municipalities article, with some additional info that the main Municipalities article would add. I do not intend to cause any damage to the quality of the List of Municipalities article, on the contrary. And I reckon that the new article could become featured one soon enough. I just think that the two articles are similar enough to justify merging.--Húsönd 18:40, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Re-viewing the articles again, perhaps moving some of the material from the current Municipalities of Portugal to the current List of municipalities of Portugal and then renaming the latter Municipalities of Portugal might work more effectively, i.e. a non-wholesale reverse merge...?  Regards, David 01:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Well yes, that is pretty much the result that I had in mind. But, can an article be renamed to one that already exists? Wouldn't that require the other article to vanish first? Regards--Húsönd 15:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I think I'd copy the contents of both* to an editor outside Wikipedia, work on a merged version there, then replace the current List of municipalities of Portugal with the merged version (and Edit summary: "Merged material from Municipalities of Portugal" or the like) and then request a page move from List of municipalities of Portugal to Municipalities of Portugal. That way I believe the integrity of the pages' histories should be maintained.
*Although I'd say the table in Municipalities of Portugal#List of municipalities is redundant, i.e. I'd only work on merging information in Municipalities of Portugal's text with List of municipalities of Portugal before requesting the latter is renamed to the former. I'd look at trying this myself now, but have demands elsewhere for the time being.
Best wishes, David Kernow 12:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I'll follow your advice. Thanks for your help. Regards --Húsönd 13:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I second everything written by 84.90.44.3 on 16:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC). I'll also add, a bit redundantly, that, in terms of Wikipedia common practice, a list is a list and an article is an article (in strict sense). A list may have just a how-to-read header and remit to the article, which in turn be fully narrative as it should be. Also, the fact that the list is over 90K is an automatic recommendation in WP terms that it NOT be merged with another article, taking it above the 30K recommended limit. --maf 17:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The articles unnecessarily share common information (each has its own list). Fusing the info into a single article would not create a much bigger article than the List one. The merger is part of an attempt to standardize all the articles containing lists of municipalities. I thought that the merger could be a good idea, but perhaps this needs further discussion. I have just created a discussion for the standardization of the lists of municipalities here. Please feel free to join the discussion. --Húsönd 19:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted this edit: "12:49, 22 August 2006 PedroPVZ" that redirected this article to the List of Municipalities of Portugal. This survey is not closed, thank you for respecting it while it is open. I will now go to the other discussion you opened. --maf 14:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I second maf. Joaopais 17:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • merge I've created this one, but the list of municipalities is way better. I've redirected, but someone removed. --Pedro 14:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I've made a REDIRECTConcelho and kept what was important in the article for the concelhos themselfs.
    • I believe you should have done a MOVE in order to take this discussion page along. (I did a similar mistake this morning before finding the appropriate policy.) But see my comment on the move at the Talk:Concelho page.--maf 14:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)