Talk:Mule

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Equine, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of articles relating to horses, asses, zebras, hybrids, equine health, equine sports, etc. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at the barn.
Start	This page has been rated as Start-Class on the quality assessment scale
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance assessment scale

This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

	Agropedia Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Agriculture, which collaborates on articles related to agriculture. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
Assessment comments This article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

	Mammals Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mammals, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Mammal-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start	This article has been rated as start-class on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Assessment comments This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

[edit] Racism

In my opinion, this section does not belong here, as racism is not the topic. This isn't a dictionary. I'd note that another use of the term "mule" -- a person who carries illegal drugs into the country -- is not mentioned.

But if it stays, could someone explain just what is meant by "white african american"? The phrase would call to mind, say, an immigrant from South Africa of European descent.

Bob Kerns (talk) 07:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It's rather erroneous. --Bentonia School (talk) 16:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

The animal in the top picture is probably a donkey. Lisa

[edit] Scientific classification

Does the mule have a scientific classification? I mean, it is a hybrid caused by man and all, but I don't see why it should be left out of the evolutionary tree... -- Natalinasmpf 15:07, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Probably because it can't be bred and thus create likenesses of itself, it won't have its own species name. I believe as a hybrid it would be referred to like this:

Equus caballus x Equus asinus

21:17, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mule fertility

I find the line "a female mule, called a 'molly,' that has estrus cycles and can carry a fetus..." to be confusing. Does the term molly refer to all female mules or only those that are fertile?

[edit] Sterility

The article says all males are sterile. I question this. I've read that when male mules are almost always castrated, because if they aren't castrated they are very se xually agressive. I think this means that the fertility of male mules is never really tested.

The article says female hinnies are always sterile, but that almost all female mules are sterile. I question this as well. I've read that while mules are generally larger, there is no sure way to distinguish between adult mules and adult hinnies biochemically. But that one can distinguish them by putting them in a paddock that contains both horses and donkeys. It will go hang out with its mother's species.

I suspect that rather than almost all mules being sterile, all mules are almost all sterile. I suspect that the chromosome match between the hybrid's gamete and the full-blooded horse or donkey's gamete is always problematic, without regard to the sex of the hybrid and the full-blood. I suspect that what the article states -- that some rare female mules are fertile, and all the rest are sterile is incorrect. Rather that all mules have the same slim chance of generating a gamete that can join with a full-blooded parent's gamete to make a viable offspring, and that we would be seeing male hybrids making the occasional baby if they weren't always all sterilized. -- Geo Swan 03:08, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 63 chromosomes

I think it should be mentioned that mules have 63 chromosomes, thus an uneven number unable to divide into chromosome pairs. I didn't really understand why mules weren't able to reproduce until I looked elsewhere.

[edit] Fertility in mule offspring

In those rare cases that mules have had offspring, is it known whether those offspring have been sterile or fertile? I figure that in the few cases that female mules have had offspring, it has been because they have been able to produce gametes with an even number of chromosomes. As the mule's total number of chromosomes is 63, the gamete should either contain 31 or 32 chromosomes. Then there should be four combinations of possible numbers of chromosomes for the mule offspring:

Offpsring to mule and donkey: 62 (31+31) or 63 (31+32) Offspring to mule and horse : 63 (31+32) or 64 (32+32)

So 50% of the 3/4 donkeys and 50% of the 3/4 horses should be able to mate normally, having an even number of chromosomes. Then if we have enough individuals who are, let's say 3/4 donkeys, 50% of them should be able to mate normally and all their offspring should be able to mate. Then we have a species with 25% horse DNA and 75% donkey DNA which is fully able to reproduce.

If it's all about the genetics, it should even be possible to produce fully fertile mules. If we have one 3/4 horse with 63 chromosomes and one 3/4 donkey with 62 chromosomes, then the 3/4 horse might produce either 31 chromosome or 32 chromosome gametes. If that offspring gets the 62 (31+31) chromosomes combination, then it should be 50% horse/50% mule and fully fertile. We do this procedure with a number of different individuals to prevent inbreeding and we have a fertile mule species.

The only real obstacles with this is that there are so few mule offpsring already (60 reported cases throughout history according to this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2290491.stm). 50% of those 60 cases will be fully fertile while the other 50% will have the same fertility problems as the mules, having 63 chromosomes. But then we can take one of the fertile 3/4 ones and one 3/4 of the other side which has 63 chromosomes and there will be a 50% chance in having a fully fertile mule.

[edit] Citations needed

I added some {{cn}} in the section on fertility.

• While the explanation that a mule mare is only fertile when the random roll of chance has her produce a gamete that has all the horse genes -- or all the donkey genes -- sounds credible, it is also completely unreferenced. It could be original research
• Particularly disturbing are the mutual inconsistencies in the anecdotal accounts of offspring. Some are consistent with this claim that mule offspring will be 100% horse or 100% donkey. Others that mule offspring will be a mix with approximately 75% of the characteristics of the pure bred parent. Neither sets of anecdotes are referenced.

I think that if no one steps forth to supply the citations needed for this section it should be cut back to only that which can be documents. I suggest waiting one month.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 23:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Enormous phallus"? Aggressive sex drive? Almost always gelded?

Possible defacement- I'm no expert on Mules, but I don't suspect that Mule's have particularly lengthy members (see Characteristics). Anyone care to look into this matter? No innuendo intended.

I have worked with mules for years and have been around thousands of them. The Penis size of mules will vary quite a bit from animal to animal, but there are some mules that are very impressive! I would say the largest equine penises I have seen have all been mules.

As noted in the main article mules are not universally sterile. Once every decade or so a female mule does give birth. I read that one reason the relative infertility of male mules is harder to document is that intact male mules are very sexually agressive. So male mules are almost always gelded, prior to puberty, to curb their sexual agressiveness. Because they are usually castrated their relative fertility is rarely put to the test. Anyhow, could this sexual agressiveness be the real source of the aphorism "hung like a mule"? Geo Swan 15:52, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hung doesn't refer to sexual drive.

No, but an animal that was very sexually aggressive might be regarded as "hung" because his organs of generation were regularly seen in their engorged state. FWIW. Geo Swan 00:00, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I removed the sentence containing the phrase "enormous phallus" from the article because it is subjective and un-encyclopedic. Also, the (relative) size of an animal's penis is not a matter of primary importance, especially in the context of such a short article. Compare the articles Horse and Horse reproduction, which do not contain similar information. --Bwiki 15:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A professional opinion [?]

I regularly refer to the Wikipedia in my practice as a Veterinary Scientist of Equine and Alternative Livestock. I am presently a fellow at an OMAF research installation (Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Food [formerly Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs, OMAFRA]) which is actively involved in the study of both Mules and Donkeys. That being said, I feel as though I might provide some much needed information with regard to the matter of the Mule's primary sexual characteristics and, more specifically, his phallus in particular. Thus I present the following obiter dictum, as I hope my commentary will be of some use to those whom are debating this issue.

As a prior reviewer mentioned, it is common knowledge that Mules, Horses, and Donkeys (Equus asinus) indubitably share several prominent physical traits. Hence, since it is commonly accepted that Equus caballus (the common Horse) possesses a particularly large phallus, it stands to reason that the Mule, while physically smaller, may very well sport a comparatively sizeable penis. Both donkeys and mules, however, differ greatly from their Horse counterparts: in particular, their jugular furrow (the place where blood samples are taken or tranquilizers are given) tends to be substantially more cartilaginous that that of most other animals. Further, the cutaneous coli muscle is much thicker than in the horse and hides the middle third of the jugular vein. More over, it is easier to find the upper third of the jugular in a Mule than a horse. The nasolacrimal duct of the donkey is located on the flare of the nostril rather than the floor of the nostril as it is in the horse. Picayune difference such as these seem to fool the untrained eye- people grasp the apparent aspects of the Mule and Donkey much more readily than they might acknowledge these finer nuances of the beast.

There are several classes of Mules to consider before I attempt an answer. These appear below:

Miniature: under 36 inches

Small Standard: from 36.01 to 48 inches

Large Standard: over 48 inches and under 54 inches for females; over 48 inches and under 56 inches for jacks and geldings

Mammoth: 54 inches or over for females and 56 inches or over for male

Traditionally, the Mules we read about in books and see in television programs tend to fall into the category of "Large Standard." These specimines most ostensibly possess particularly large phalluses. It occurs to me that some of the animals I have treated have displayed sexual organs nearly 1/6th of their body length when sufficiently excited.

I should point out that mules measuring greater than 54 inches at the withers are particularly endowed specimines. The few that I have studied posess penises of a startling girth and length. Indeed, had these Mules not been sterile, they would not be capable of participating in coitus as their female counterparts would be too substantially pained by the massive size of the male's penis to entertain the practice of copulation. One of my co-workers had been so startled by one animal's erection that he grew uncomfortable and was unable to continue the work he had been engaged in. He has been practicing veterinary medicine for more than 10 years.

That said, I would certainly condone the statement that Mules have particularly large phalluses. Hopefully this brief discourse will be of some use.

--RobertStuartson 03:07, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

(Note: the word dong hardly seems appropriate in the context of this article. Perhaps this word can be changed to "phallus" or "penis?")

I would vote for penis, since "phallus" usually denotes a "depiction" of the penis.

I suspect the erudite essay above to be a spoof, especially because of the sentence "One of my co-workers had been so startled..." towards the end. --Bwiki 15:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intelligence

I'd be very interested if someone explained more about the claim that mules are more intelligent than either horses or donkeys.The_Irrelevant_One 21:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

If one may be allowed to speak in general terms about a group of individuals, mules seem to have a different type of intelligence than horses, particularly when it comes to reacting 1) to the use of their own bodies, 2) to handling by humans and 3) their surroundings.

1) Mules are often accused of being stubborn, in that they will seem to “suddenly stop and go no farther”. When they do this, the handler can move Heaven and Earth to get the mule to move, but the animal will (seemingly) rather die than take one more step. What the mule is actually doing is enacting a unique form of self-preservation. If you overwork a mule, too heavy a load, too long a ride or pull, the mule “knows” when it’s had enough, and will quit pulling or stop the journey away from home. I have misjudged a mule’s stamina, and had the mule pin it’s ears back and bow up and stop in the middle of a long trail ride. When I figured it out and turned around for home, had the mule very happily give a lovely, gentle ride back to the barn, where I could then see that he was really at his limit of strength. Shame on me! Only persons not “in tune” with the animal’s strength or conditioning level will accuse them of being stubborn, because a well-treated mule will work itself just about to death for a gentle, knowledgeable owner. So, their reputed “stubbornness” is actually a form of intelligence I have rarely seen in horses, who will very often let their beloved riders ride them – literally – to death.

2) A horse mistreated will (generalizing, again) “act out” right then and there. Action, reaction, and be done with it. Mules, however, will sometimes “bide their time” and wait for the human to inadvertently be caught in a compromising position (back turned, on the ground for some reason, overtired and not paying attention, etc.) and will THEN kick the snot out of the abuser! Mules seem, thereby, to have an amazing memory. I have seen a rescued mule act totally innocent when encountering a former abusive owner in a crowd of trail riders, very slyly get his current rider to saunter past him, then suddenly lash out, injuring the man very badly. Horses wear their emotions more “on their sleeves”, as it were, and are rarely as subtle as a mule (overall).

3) Mules make the absolutely best “watchdogs”. They can learn in one day who’s car or truck belongs where and when. They can protect their riders from snakes and other threats by simply, immediately, stomping the snake into the ground (which is why one must be very cautious with other pets around mules). There are even reports of mules killing mountain lions, although the pictures that went around email a few years back was, I think proven to be a hoax. Still, it’s very common practice to run a mule or donkey with a herd of cows, horses, ponies, llamas, etc., to protect them. Soltera 21:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting and thanks. The neighbors where I recently moved actually have a mule amongst their cattle to protect them from wolves but I never really believed the reasoning. 67.142.130.40 12:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major Citaion needed

Unless anyone cares to verify the mountain lion bit, I'll be removing it. VanTucky 02:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Way too many pictures

This article has so many pictures they're distorting the text. How many pictures of mules on grass does it need!? Bronzey 05:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. We recently had the same problem with other such mammal articles. the problem seems to be only in those articles about animals that are kept as beloved pets. A maximum of five is what seems to work, and the more variation the better. VanTucky 20:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mules of different colours

The Mules of many colours reads like a website for a passionate mule breeder. Not appropraite here IMHO. 145.253.108.22 14:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Your opinion is respected. That having been said, I added that information because most mules are solid colored, and the variety now seen in mule coloration is important to an understanding of the modern mule and the mule fanciers who own them. No less relevant than the colors that a breed of dog may come in. I think it is necessary to a complete discussion of the subject. By the way, I admit to being a passionate mule owner, but frankly, who else would write about them? 76.107.19.242 01:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

A mule that weighs 10000 lbs?

   This caught my attention too.  A quick search reveals the largest horses are around 3,000 lbs, so I would imagine the largest mules are something less than this.

What about the whole part about blue mules? I think the useful parts of that section should be merged into the Characteristics section, with the rest being removed.Nullav 17:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mule train

Redirects to this article, but there is nothing in the history or useage of mules which even hints to a mule train.
~ender 2007-05-12 22:45:PM MST

[edit] I don't think this means what it sounds like

Sometimes people let a stallion (male horse) run with a jenny (female donkey) for as long as six years before getting her pregnant.

I dunno, maybe my brain is punny, but it sounds to me like people get her pregnant...what does the sentence mean, anyway? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

This article really looks like it needs a few sources replaced. One even leads to what amounts to some sort of mule flea market with essentially no information. (http://longearsmall.com/) Nullav 17:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sammy2324 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)