Talk:Mukkulathor/Archive 1
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This page requires, 3 different sub titles dealing with Kallar, Maravar and Agamudaiyar16:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)~
ON ORIGINS
AGAMUDAIYARS,KALLARS, MARAVARS ARE MAIN CASTES OF DEVARS THEY ARE KNOWN AS MUKKULATHORS.THERE ARE LOT OF SUB CASTES IN MUKKULATHORS AND THESE WERE THE THREE IMPORTANT AMONG THEM THESE WERE THE ORGINS.
Our History
The vellalars are not associated with the mukkulathors. They are seperate castes. The mukkulathors is a caste of three prominent communities namely agamuduyar,kallar and maravar. The Nayaks or Naickers were also kings of the late pandya-nadu. The caste of Raja Raja Cholan is THEVAR his name is ARUL MOZHI THEVAR.
Vellalar is deriviation of Mukkulathors PLEASE do not confuse this, 'VAELALA'[VAE-LA-LA] is different
they got nothing to do with Vellalar[VELL-LA-LAR].(KALLAR,MARAVAR,GANATHATHOR AGAMUDAYAR, MELLA MELLA VANDHU SOZHIYA VELLALAR ANARGAL.)
Raja raja Cholan
The caste of Raja Raja Cholan was never mentioned by the history. 'Devar' in Tamil means divine. History doesnt cinch that it's a caste at the time of rajaraja cholan. It is believed that the mother of Raja Raja Cholan was of a low caste. If he was a Thevar, the thevars would have surely mentioned his name in functions Thevar jayanthi etc. Great kings like the Marudhu Pandiyar brothers were thevars(Agamudayars to be exact), I agree. But at the time of Raja Raja Cholan, the caste system was not established completely in Tamil Nadu [1]. This is a fact. Which means that the ancient kings of pandiya nadu or chera nadu were not specifically thevars but were of a common race. Caste was actually introduced after this era. Refer any book on ancient tamil nadu. U r right the vellalars are not at all associated with the Thevars..Thirumalai nayakar 10:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Rewriting history
Either u should reply my questions or u should leave things to the knowledgeable people. R u trying to tell me dat the only ruling caste in tamil nadu are thevars. The thevars were a brave and mighty caste. But that doesnt mean they were the only rulers of tamil-nadu. This is reasonless. The category 'KINGS' which childishly states that all the kings of tamil-nadu were thevars should be permanently excluded from the article. Otherwise this article can't be contemplated as a fact......Thirumalai nayakar 11:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Stop blabbering
I dunno y do u have this much of interest on this page.we are not claiming that all rulers of tamilnadu were thevars.From ur point naickers also ruled tamilnadu.From their title itself it is clear they were from naiacker community.If u suppose to read the life history of pasumpon muthuramalinga thevar,u will came to know that he is a descendant of pandiyan nedunchezhiyan.ur claim that cholas were from lower caste is a baseless one and it shouldnt be accepted.Here are some links that u can have a look on them,which were about the stone carvings(tamil:kalvettu) of chola kings.In that u can find the title "thevar" after the king's name.
http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=113 http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=124 http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=93 http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=154 http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=252
so it is very clear that pandiya kings,chola kings were from thevar community.--Alagesandas 12:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Who's blabbering
I never said that the thevars have nothing to do with the pandiyan empire! Did I delete the part of this article which states "Agamudayar, Kallar and Maravar formed the pandyan army!" I just don't want that line which states all the chola and pandiya kings were Thevars. Thevars are the descendants of the pandyas!! It is a perfect fact. In some places like Tirunelveli, the thevars are called as 'Pandiyar'. That is not my point. But u can't just write that all the kings of the pandya nadu were Thevars. Does that mean people like Veera-Pandiya Kattabomman and Thirumalai Nayakar were Thevars too?!! I don't think so. U must choose ur words more carefully, Mr.Alagesandas. This is something abt a caste and u can't just alter history to praise it. I am definitely not a person against the Thevars. I greatly admire the Thevars for wat they r. They were great freedom fighters and even a challenge to the Britishers!! These are impeccable facts. But don't say that kings like Nedunchezhiyan and Raja Raja Chola are Thevars. Bcoz at their time caste system was not even there. This is also a perfect fact. Refer books instead of websites!!! The article abt the Pallars says that Raja Raja Cholan was of their caste. This is also not true. The people of Tanjore(Kallars) say that Raja Raja Cholan's mother was from a poor family. It seems dats y they keep his statue outside the town. Please refer books and then write. I know abt the Thevars more than u. They r like my brothers. Thirumalai nayakar 08:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely u r blaberring Mr.Nayakar
Firstly dont call yourself as brother cause you really dont know the meaning of it. initially know the meaning of brotherhood, I dont beleive in any brother(s) that assaults his brother by giving stupid theories. Dont try to insult our community and disgrace it by your irrelavant rubbish satements and spoil the real instinct of this group, Ofcourse there are no chance for u knowing our Thevar community. Please stay away and dont give false and negative comments in this forum we are not interested in you. We know the meaning of brotherhood, and have a fresh breath for your curiosity and dont be a retard.Thanjai Thevar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.46.30 (talk) 20:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Duh!
I think u should just go through wat u just wrote! I don't have time for illiterates.Thirumalai nayakar 11:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Huh!!
Man you are so funny, I was so serious in telling you the facts where you got nothing to do in this forum, Anyways go through the words that i told/wrote.
Its always better to be Illiterate rather being a IDIOT(ic) Literate.Huh!!!!... Thanjai Thevar
Listen up, guys
- Stop this mud-slinging in the name of caste. Fight for some bigger cause! Caste is a stupid subject to fight upon.
- Raja Raja Cholan could have been a Thevar; I said 'could'. Please do not use Kalki's "Ponniyin Selvan" as a source of proof as it is a semi-fictional novel (that is what Kalki himself claimed, not me). He used some facts alongwith his imagination skill to write that great romantic novel (I read it some 3 times since when I was 10yrs old; the last time I read it was a couple of months ago). Hence his caste is not known for clear. And why do you bother what caste he was? He was a great ruler and that is what matters the most. By the way, the Tamil kings had many inter-caste marriages-of-alliance for political benefits and hence NONE is pure-blood of some caste!
- The celestial Gods like: Lord Indra, Agni, Vaayu, etc were also called Devars. Would that mean that the Gods were also of the caste , Thevars? Ancient Tamil Nadu did not have a proper caste system!
- Most Pandya kings were Thevars - yes. But not all Pandya kings were Thevars. Most Cholas were Thevars but not all.
Mind Swapper 01:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Right u r
Thats wat i am talking abt....Thirumalai nayakar 14:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC) Well stop abusing thevars in a page which is exclusively meant for thevars. well your harsh comments show what kinda primary education you had received.
Now mr thirumalai, check how you contradict your own statements
“But at the time of Raja Raja Cholan, the caste system was not established in Tamil Nadu”
And in the very next line you type
“It is believed that the mother of Raja Raja Cholan was of a low caste.”
And in the next reply you write
“But don't say that kings like Nedunchezhiyan and Raja Raja Chola are Thevars. Bcoz at their time caste system was not even there.”
And also check the link you give for your justification …….it clearly shows your literacy level
“ check the link “ http://www.thrikodithanam.org/tidbits.htm It is about “How was the Caste System introduced in Kerala?” .
FYI, THIS page is concerned with tamilnadu thevars. And in the next line you ve typed “It seems dats y they keep his statue outside the town.”…..
so it is pretty much clear that your not confident in the history you knew.
You ve asked for book reference in your replies
“Refer books instead of websites!!! “
Will you shut up and exit this page if I give book references. Well I can understand who you are and for what purpose you are in this page . —Preceding unsigned comment added by SNVURDAK SERVAI (talk • contribs) 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC) SNVURDAK SERVAI 08:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Wat a smartass!!
this is not some kinda court. I am damn sure of wat iam talkin abt... I am jealous?! This page is jus full of crap n tall tales!! N must be altered or should be deleted!! Don't play 'smartass' with meThirumalai nayakar 04:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
DAMN SURE, MR THIRUMALAI,YOUR A PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC
There are many concrete evidences which states that thevars are descendants of cholas. Might be you are not aware of the history which claims this fact. Your words show that you aren’t pretty much confident with your uni-directional histories.
1. http://pasumponmuthuramalingam.blogspot.com/2007/10/cholas-and-caste-system.html
2. http://pasumponmuthuramalingam.blogspot.com/2007/10/caste-system-in-cholas.html
well mr .literate thirumalai…check the above blogspot , I have given you book references for the existence of caste system during cholas . I can guess How blind you are to say that caste system didn’t exist during cholas. One thing is for sure you lack complete knowledge in ancient tamil history.Well mr literate thirumalai kindly go through these reference books and come for discussion. and for pandyan kings check out the below link
http://tamilelibrary.org/teli/rulers.html .
i can understand you have zero knowledge about pandya KINGS And kingdom. First understand pandyan kings(from 9th century) are different from madurai nayakars(15th century). Well , we have clearly mentioned all pandya kings and not all madurai kings. so I think , it is time for you to check your English knowledge too. now I substantiate my arguments with my references
1. http://www.madurai.com/suryatours/thirumalainayakarmahal.htm
2. http://www.indiatravelogue.com/dest/tam/hist.html
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirumalai_Nayak
well mr literate thirumalai, your drugged, hilarious mind has to accept the difference between pandyan kings and pandyan kingdom .it is a open truth that nayaks ruled pandyan territories in 15th century, but it doesn’t mean that they are PANDYAN KINGS..... MR LITERATE THIRUMALAI , WILL YOU SAY BRITISHERS ARE PANDYAN KINGS SINCE THEY RULED PANDYAN TERRITORIES?”....well I have substantiated your queries with references and you can browse any amount of good literature and make sure that you come out of your misconceptions that “nayakars are pandyan kings”… Well I understand it is very difficult for you to come out of your delusions and hallucinations. Anyway it is high time for you to check your mind status with a psychiatrist. pandyan king nedunchezhiyan is considered to be mukkulathorin kaval deivam. Since you claim that you are a literate ,you can read more about pandya kings in the following books
1. pandya mannan nedunchezhiyan
2. yanai kalvan “‘யானே கள்வன்’” by e.v rajaraja pandian
3. mukkulathorin muthar deivammana pandi munneaswarar “முக்குலத்தோரின் முழுமுதற் தெய்வமான பாண்டி முனீஸ்வரர்” BY DHAYANESWARAN
4. pandi munneswarar- therakathi deivangal by PRIYA KALAYANRAMAN http://pasumponmuthuramalingam.blogspot.com/2007/10/pandya-manan-pandy-munni.html
Well mr literate thirumalai , You have suffixed your caste name and I don’t find any significant contribution from your side towards your caste page. So its high time for you to quit this page . and also check your caste wiki page. You have placed PERIYAR in your caste page. What a irony mr literate thirumalai.?? FYI , periyar was a person who fought against casteism in any form. But you disown him and earn disgrace to him by placing him top, in your wiki pages. “ so better you clean up your ugly ass regularly, before licking others ” well mr literate thirumalai , fyi vanniyars and nadars claim that they are descendants of cholas and pandyas respectively in their wiki pages…….. so quit this page and try your luck in some other wiki pages ….and also try to have a banner saying that I am an English literate with zero knowledge in ancient tamil history .
if you claim to be an English literate, do check your English vocabulary in your replies
“imbecciles” “becomin” “Jus” “Tryin” SNVURDAK SERVAI 05:03, 2 October 2007 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by SNVURDAK SERVAI (talk • contribs) 05:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
RASCAL THIRUMALAI
It is so irritating to see ur comments Mr.GRAMMER alias RASCAL THIRUMALAI. We all hate your false idiotic stupid theories, its better for u to quit this page. Dont u ever try to use ur mothered rubbish language to us by the way JUST CORK YOUR HOLE RASCAL. Thanjai Thevar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.59.181 (talk) 19:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Blogspot bluff written by some thevar
Blogspot is a place where everyone can post articles. Another false story. Gosh. I am discussin things with a bunch of LKG students who childishly come back to the square one of the discussion and make it baseless.. All i said was", the thevars were not the only people to rule the pandiya nadu", which is nothing but the truth. SNVURDAK SERVAI is jus too smart to be here. I am very impressed, Servai.(Duh!!).. The article is like some kinda Rajinikanth movie. Except dat it is aimed to shower baseless adulations on the community called thevars. For eg, "Kings: ALL THE PANDIYA KINGS,ALL THE CHOLA KINGS".. Next time try including the statement," ALL THE BRITISH KINGS,ALL THE FRENCH KINGS(Napolean) and the SPARTANS TOO!!" So that we could have another long, stupid and out of the world argument. Thanjai Thevar is losing his marbles completely. I jus enjoy havin fun with u ,fool. I don't hav to prove anything by posting stupid links. Wat i am talkin abt is a fact accepted by everyone. The fool is tyin to say that madurai was not of the pandyan territory! Wat an idiot?! Was Veera pandiya Kattabomman a Japanese!! This article must be altered o deleted.Thirumalai nayakar 12:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
@ MR.THIRUMALAI, just make an honest effort to understand things before editing.
Blogspot was created exclusively by me for your ignorance and the post was posted on October 1, 2007 exclusively for you and I ve quoted authentic weblinks in my post . I ve taken my honest effort to clarify your delusions in my post.. AND MR . KURUTTU KABOTHI THIRUMALAI, understand pandiyar’s and nayakars are not the same. Nayakar’s ruled pandyan territories ( 100 %fact)…….they WERE pandiya nadu kings (100% fact)…nayakars controlled later pandyar kings (100% truth)….
MR THIRUMALAI check the wiki link. You will understand more about pandiyar kings. “ http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A3%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D”
. if u understand tamil….kindly go thru the wiki link and make an honest effort to understand the meaning of pandiyar’s before editing our pages http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A3%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D#.E0.AE.AA.E0.AE.BE.E0.AE.A3.E0.AF.8D.E0.AE.9F.E0.AE.BF.E0.AE.AF_.E0.AE.A8.E0.AE.BE.E0.AE.9F.E0.AF.8D.E0.AE.9F.E0.AE.BF.E0.AE.B2.E0.AF.8D_.E0.AE.AA.E0.AE.BF.E0.AE.B1_.E0.AE.A8.E0.AE.BE.E0.AE.9F.E0.AF.8D.E0.AE.9F.E0.AE.B5.E0.AE.B0.E0.AF.8D_.E0.AE.86.E0.AE.9F.E0.AF.8D.E0.AE.9A.E0.AE.BF விஜய நகரப் பேரரசாட்சி கி.பி. 1310 முதல் 1748 ஆம் ஆண்டு வரை தமிழகத்தினை விஜய நகரப் பேரரசு ஆண்டது.நாயக்க மன்னர்கள் அரசியல் அதிகாரிகளாக ஆட்சி புரிந்துள்ளனர்..சேர,சோழ,பாண்டிய போன்ற பேரரசுகள் விஜய நகரப் பேரரசு காலத்தில் வீழ்ச்சியுற்றிருந்தன. பல பாண்டிய மன்னர்கள் குறுநில மன்னர்களாக இருந்து விஜய நகரப் பேரரசிடம் திறை செலுத்தியும் உள்ளது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது. நாயக்க மன்னர்களின் ஆட்சியின் கீழ் இருந்த பாண்டிய மன்னர்கள். பரக்கிரம பாண்டியன் எனற பெயரில் நாயக்கர் காலத்தில் மூன்று மன்னர்கள் இருந்தனர் என்பது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது. • கி.பி. 1387 ஆம் ஆண்டளவில் பராக்கிரம பாண்டியன் திருக்குற்றாலத்தில் திருப்பணி புரிந்தான். • கி.பி. 1384-1415 வரை பாண்டிய நாட்டில் ஆட்சி புரிந்தான் பராக்கிரம பாண்டியன் என்ற பெயருடைய ஒன்னொருவன். • கி.பி. 1401-1434 வரை பராக்கிரம பாண்டியன் ஒருவன் பாண்டிய நாட்டில் ஆட்சி செய்தான். • சடையவர்மன் குலசேகர பாண்டியன் என்ற பெயர்கொண்ட ஒருவன் கி.பி. 1396 ஆம் ஆண்டில் பட்டம் பெற்றான் என கரிவலம் வந்த நல்லூர் கல்வெட்டு குறிப்பிடுவது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது.
Check out the link below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandiya just ve patience to read the whole wiki article written in English..
to quote the lines
After Madurai fell into the hands of the invading armies of the Delhi Sultanate, the Pandyas sought the help of Vijayanagar Empire. The Vijayanagar Empire replaced the Delhi Sultanate in Madurai and appointed Nayaks governors to rule from Madurai.
if u think the above article is biased ……… just go and edit the above link because they failed to publish veerapandiya kattabooman and thirumalai nayakar in that article “pandiyars.” … and start a discussion in that page Man again n again you are proving your ignorance. I knew you will die with your ignorance…..anyway people who ve an opportunity to read this discussion will laugh @ you 4 your ignorance. ………can u gimme a reason for editing RAMNAD n THONDAIMAN kings………. I knew you have no links in support of your delusions……….
your testing our nerves…….carry on , you will face the consequences…
SNVURDAK SERVAI 19:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh,no. I am scared
Bluff. Do watever bull-shit u want to. But DONT EVEN think of intimidating me. This is a discussion page. So keep ur fuckin threats to urself. I know wat i am talkin abt. N so do u. I don't really care if the nayaks were the rulers of the pandiya nadu o not. I am jus trying to say that it is baseless to consider all the pandian&chola kings as thevars. There is no proof to support this theory. The Ramnad n thondaiman kings were thevars. Thondaiman is a sub-caste of the kallars.This is true. I agree. Go thru this link and read it carefully. [2]. Thirumalai nayakar 10:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Thirumalai not nayakar-a toddy tapper
You poor toddy tapper. You are a shite. We are repeatedly saying that you got nothing to do with this forum. If you really have guts juz give your damned address. We will prove what you dint know about us and we will clarify your doubts. You are panic stricken and thats why you are blabbering. Mr.Amaran. he is not a nayakar. They people never use to do these kinda cheap work. He is from a toddy tapping caste. What to say. Technology have improved a lot and brought you people to this place discussing equally with us. Its better you quit this page otherwise you need to face very serious consequences.Mind it asshole.--Thevan da 02:24, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
...Dont...Dont...
Friends! Please dont use abusive language. Its a discussion forum. we have to take part in the discussions in a healthy way. Mr.Thirumalai better you quit this forum.--Alagesandas 04:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Ha Ha Ha
Ha...Ha...Ha...So you are a Goud, an andhra guy. Are you....?How come an andhra guy knows more about the thevar history than a thevar guy. LOL. Very crafty reply that you are an andhra guy. I am saying that you are from a toddy tapping caste of tamilnadu. Ok leave it. Whatever your caste may be. You made a better decision of quitting. Sounds good. And hereafter we dont want you getting into our page with any of these kinda fake names. Keep in mind. Right. --Thevan da 16:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Who's running away fool
Y don't u find out wat i am like u said. I am not runnin away frm anything. Especially a fool who thinks he's a don. Keep dat in mind. Y don't u reveal urself first, war hero. I am no fake. The part which stated 'all the pandiya kings' has been altered n i am through with my discussion. Period. If u wanna fight y don't u give me ur address,fool. As i said I am in Andra but i m damn powerful in Tamilnadu. Keep talkin if wanna know more abt me. I am jus full of surprises.....Thirumalai nayakar 10:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
A comedy by a lunatic
Hey silly dimwit. What to find about you. I am repeatedly saying that you are from a toddy tapping caste of tamilnadu. But you are kidding that you are an andhra guy. If u wanna know about me come to madurai "Thevar peravai" office. You will be having a warm welcome. You can catch me there. So you are not running away from anything. Then whats the meaning for these words..
"Don't think i am leavin because i am scared. I am leavin because i cant discuss things with a bunch fools or should i say losers who r too damn afraid to face the fact"
You are very panic and thats why blabbering a lot. We are not here to fight with any of these fake toddy tapping bullshits. The war heroes and blue blooded people never use to fight with people who are not equal to them at any cost. Now you have stopped editing our page. Nothing is with you. So dont try to show that you are not scared by getting into the discussion page. You are very panic strucked and that thing is very clear when i suppose to see the page history. So many times you edited the page for that reply. Very ridiculous. So scram ! We dont have time for impuissants.--Thevan da 09:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Thevan da is not a thevan da?
Is dat ur address, fool? I said 'IF U WANNA FIGHT,give me ur address. Who's the scaredy cat,smartass? I wrote dat crap without lookin at the main article,moron. The retard says he resides at the Madurai Thevar pervai?! Can't u understand English?! WATS UR GOD DAMN ADDRESS, u chicken!!Thirumalai nayakar 15:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
LOL..LOL..LOL..
You are cleverly trying me to tell your caste name. But i wont. If i spell out your caste name then it will be a sin for me. Yeah. I am residing very nearer to Thevar peravai office. But I am a native of usilambatti. My home is very next to the office. If you come to the office you can see me most of the times. I ll show you that i am a thevan or not in person. If you really wanna see us come there and get indroduce yourself with this name and see whats happening. LOL. As you said, i am very poor and weak in english. I cant understand english. I dont even write A,B,C,D in a correct way. Here some of my mates too very poor in english. LOL. We are in need of a person who is very good in english. I think you are very good in english. LOL. We need you as our english master. LOL. we need your address. So that only we can come near to you for learning english. Dont blab that you will give your andhra address and blah blah blah. We are very sure about learning english from you. Dont kid by suggesting someother learning institutes and by giving some anonymous addresses.--Thevan da 03:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
