Talk:Muhajir (Pakistan)

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Contents

[edit] Addition of more celebrities

I added the following people in the list of Mohajir celebrities:

I have removed Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed ali Jinna's name from the list as he was born in Karachi Sindh and his family lived there well before partition. so by any means he is not a mohajir as he did not immigrate after 1947.

"Jinnah was the eldest of seven children born to Mithibai and Jinnahbhai Poonja. His father, Jinnahbhai (1857–1901), was a prosperous Gujarati merchant who had moved to Sindh from Kathiawar, Gujarat shortly before Jinnah's birth.[4][5]"

He was just like most of us who are born in karachi but their parent(grand) migrated from North India. So thats makes him a Muhajir. His parents and fore fathers don't belong to Karachi. He spent most of his life in Bombay. At time of partition he was settled in Bombay and he migrated from Bombay along with his sister Fatima Jinnah.

Moinuddin Haider, Ishrat-ul-Ebad Khan, Azeem Ahmed Tariq, Mirza Aslam Beg, Aamir Liaquat Hussain, Mushahid Hussain, Nasir Aslam Zahid, Mir Khalil-ur-Rehman, Mir Shakil-ur-Rehman, Israr Ahmed, Jon Elia, Jamiluddin Aali, Amanat Ali Khan, Shafqat Amanat Ali, Ali Noor, Ali Hamza, Syed Kamal, Santosh Kumar, Darpan, and Aziz Mian.User:Mkhan32 6:27, 8 November 2006

The Muhajir was reorganized to create new pages for different Muhajir groups whose description was included in the main Muhajir page. - User:Siddiqui 15:35, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kaaala Altaf does not represent any of us

We are orignal Pakistanis first and only Pakistanis and no more of Muhajirs or Urdu speakers and do not let Altaf to fool around any one. He is an Indian agent who works for Indian intelligence to create political tensions in Pakistan. MQM should change its name to PQP(Pakistanis Quami Party). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asif21 (talk • contribs) 02:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


i know strictly speaking muhajirs are an ethnic group. but they are a socio-linguistis group much like to sindhis and thats why i think they should have those little boxes each ethnic group has.Aarandir 16:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
The title of the page should be Urdu Speaking, and not Muhajir Urdu,no body can be called a "Muhajir" after three generations since

the creation of Pakistan.


err, junaid jamshed is pathan.

Ancestry or ethnic lineage does not necessarily determine if one is Muhajir or not. Many people who identity themselves as Muhajirs are of Pashtun, Turkic, Central-Asian, Persian, or Arab mixed backgrounds. JR

Junaid Jamhsed is of Iranian decent. He is not Urdu speaking. I guess. Same with the Prime Minister Shaukar Aziz. He is from Punjabi speaking family. Its so confusing to tell the differences now because of the mixed intermarriages in Pakistan. I heard from some one who was betting on Shaukat Aziz as being non Urdu speaking. It is also sad to say that Muslims care more about ethnicities rather instead of Muslim brotherhood in Islam. I think Allah Subhanutallah is creating these intermarriages so all Muslims will stop pointing at one another. Muslims in Pakistan need to wake up now.


It is funny to read here no buddy is called Muhajir .it is realy funny.Do not tell this to any one else ,you be beaten by them .BTW they are proud of calling them self as Muhajir.i have friends and they feel proud on it. Khalidkhoso 05:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely with you. No one should be called Muhajir in Pakistan but some Indian sympathizers feel proud to be called a Muhajir than a Pakistani. For God sake Allah has told Muslims to never divide up no matter what. I heard about Shia and Sunni groups in the Muslim countries but never heard about Muhajir communities in Islam. Pakistan was created for the reason so that Muslims can live together peacefully then why Pakistanis have to listen to the people like Altaf Hussain who are only creating hatredism between the Pakistani Muslim communities and please do not forget we all are Muslim brothers and sisters like one family no matter what language we use.


Waheed Murad was an ethnic Punjabi. His photo has been removed.

I do not think junaid jamshed is muhajir. Can someone please calrify about junaid jamshed. (Usman Butt) See "Aik Din Junaid Jamshed Key Saath" on youtube. His father & mother seems like from urdu speaking background.(Faraz)

[edit] General Musharaf is of Punjabi Origin(

Some one keeps on changing General Musharaf as Urdu speaking but the reality is he is of Punjabi origin because his family were settled down in Gaujrawala and His grandfather served in the Punjabi army unit. You can do a research yourself about his real identity. He is not Urdu speaking but his wife Sehba Musharaf is and he does not support MQM because he is Urdu speaking or something that is just misconception that needs to be fixed.


Quesytion:

Then why he associate himslef with urdu-speaking community. Is he ashamed of his punjabi origns?  He has claimed himslef Muhajirs many times in media and in his book "in line of fire".   His roots are in Dehli.  Their family migrated to dehli from Saudia arabia according to claim he make in his biography.

"My grandfather was landlord in paniput" (In line of fire page 13). I was told that my fore fathers have migrated from Saudia few generations ago".

Answer: Dehli also used to part of Punjab but General Musharaf was only born there. His true origin is from Gujrawala Punjab and he projects himself as Punjabi instead of Muhajir. Infact I have felt that many Pakistanis feel offended by this term "Muhajir" so I am not surprised that why people prefer to be called Punjabi or Pashtun other than Muhajir. General Musharaf is viewed as Muhajir by some people due to the reason that his wife is Urdu speaking. Even former prime minister Shaukat Aziz is punjabi speaking. Many people were also projecting him as Muhajir before that. Musharaf never lived in Saudi Arabia he lived in Turkey but his roots are from Punjab. "After Musharraf's grandfather, Qazi Mohtashimuddin, retired as the commissioner of undivided Punjab he bought Neharwali Haveli in the old walled city of Delhi where Musharraf was born"

[edit] REQUEST HAAATH JOR KEH

I think we should get rid of this page. We do not want any sort of Muhajireen ansaaar representation. This Muhajir "Gaaali" is worst than anything.Please I request you to remove this page. There are no Muhajirs in Pakistan and those who migrated to Pakistan are history now. We are the second and third generations of Pakistan and we are native Pakistanis not any Urdu speaking Muhajirs so why do we have to listen to Altaf Hussain who is paid by the Indian government to run a mafia in Pakistan. This man sits in the UK and spreads violence in Pakistan. All money of the Karachi people goes to him in the form of Bhatta(illicit Mafia/Gangster tax) and he is just fooling around the people of Pakistan. Pakistanis are literate now and there are hardly very few Paindoos who still believe in Punjabi Pashtun Muhajir wageera so we must act independently now and must reject thugs like Altaf hussain and his followers. Pakistan is our country and we must love this country and should not follow such people who travels all the way to India and to address people that Pakistan should never have been created or things like that. Please once again get rid of this page and everything related to the MQM. Thanks alot. (:

[edit] REQUEST

Please do not edit this page if you are not a Muhajir or an indian muslim

Why?So that it stays as a Muhajir or Indian Muslim POV?How stupid.Nadirali 03:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)Nadirali

I think that's wiki discrimination.... I find this discussion absurd while I do agree with the person that mentioned that the title should be Urdu speaking rather than Muhajir Urdu.

I agree. Not every Urdu Speaker refers to themselves and others a Muhajir. Some person had put in Zia ul Haq, Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan, Saleem Malik etc. These are not Urdu speakers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.230.42 (talk) 16:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] MQM and illegal hold in Pakistan

How long Muhajir term is going to be imposed on the Pakistani people who once migrated to Pakistan. I think as long as people are afraid to speak out against Altaf Hussain and his MQM thugs there will never be a Non Muhajir community in Karachi. Karachities are brainwashed my MQM thugs to hold a Muhajir identity and to act like victims but many intelligent Karachities nowadays are considering this fact that they are not Muhajirs any more and this illiteracy should end by now and they should stop supporting MQM and their thugs. Imran Khan will always be remembered as the only man who first time stood up against Altaf Hussain and his sick supporters. I think Punjabi term or Pashtun term is far better than Muhajir term because it identifies Pakistanis for Pakistan not Hindustaanis or Muhajirs.


[edit] MUHAJIRS CALL THEMSELVES INDO ARYANS

YEAH THEY DO!


[edit] Mistake

Indian Muslims are not the same as Pakistani Muslims. Indian Muslim are the nationals of the India and we should be careful while making such distinctions because Indian Muslims represent their own country India whether they speak Urdu, Punjabi or any other language.

I agree. People like Dilip Kumar (Pashtun) and Mohammad Rafi (Punjabi) chose India as their country, not Pakistan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.230.42 (talk) 14:36, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] REQUEST

I think Muhajir should be the title because language Urdu is not dominated in UP India anymore. Indian Urdu is very much different than the Urdu language being spoken in Pakistan. Indian Urdu is based on Hindi language and the native Urdu speakers in Pakistan should refer themselves as Persian speakers because the Mughal Empire adopted Persian language first eventhough their mother tongue used to be Turkish. Persian also became the elite language of the Mughals later on. Therefore Urdu came from Persian which is a national language of Pakistan and all Pakistanis speak Urdu the same.

[edit] Do not edit? Why Not?

This is Wikipedia. Anyone who can contribute without bias can edit its content to improve accuracy.

[edit] do not vandalise this page

who removed the Massacre of Alighar ?


Muhajir as a word in Urdu does not refer to Urdu speaker Muhajirs from India. I think the Urdu get this word from Arabic and it has same meaning as in Arabic. As the ethnic group is concerned this word is not just used for Urdu speakers it is also used for other Muhajrs in north of Pakistan. As I am from Sialkot, Pakistan and there local peoples used to refer my elders who migrated from India in 1947 as Muhajir. And all of them speaks Punjabi. Faraz Ahmad

Consistency There is no consistency in this article. It is very difficult to describe who a mohajir is in Pakistan. If this page is referring to 'Urdu-speaking' Mohajirs, then the following people should not be on this list: Waheed Murad (Punjabi), Abdul Sattar Edhi (Memon), Moin Akhtar (Memon).

Who is changing "aligarh incident". I was in Karachi in 1986 and we all know that afghans and pashtuns did it after "operation sohrab goth" of Jonejo government. I can refer lot of news link for that incident.


[edit] Urdu Speakers and MQM

I have heard that Muhajir Urdu speakers think that Pakistan should never been created. I think these statement are quite harsh and especially when it comes out from Altaf Hussain it should be noted carefully because our forefathers gave their lives for Pakistan. Athltaf Hussain is not the voice of Muhajirs and Muhajir community needs to address this because such remarks are the reason that Muhajir communities are not not seen loyal to Pakistan. Let us compare Pashtun Muhajirs why they are called patriotic Pakistanis and not Urdu speakers. Karachi is not a province of Pakistan and staying in majority in Karachi is not going to help either. We do not need a separate identity. We do not need to be called Urdu speaking or from UP. We are going to have our generation after generation here so the title of Urdu speaking will be ended some day so its better that we should become merged with these communities so no one can single us out.

I can understand that we should not support MQM as they are violent, but what is wrong with fighting for identity and rights. It is not us but Ayub Khan who started discrimnation against Muhajirs because educated Muhajirs were a threat for his illegal rule. Sindhis in India are not forced to give up their identity then why us? I think we just need to change strategy and should unite Sindhis, Baluchis and other ethinic minority groups and should fights for our rights with them. We will not get respect in plate. We can call ourself urdu speaking sindhis but urdu is always our part of identity.

[edit] Born Pakistanis or Native Pakistanis

Second and third generation of Pakistanis are 100% born Pakistanis and should not be referred as Muhajirs.Muhajir is not an ethnic group in Pakistan. I think a person who is born in whatever province in Pakistan should be referred from that specific province. Karachi is located in the Sindh province and therefore a person born in Karachi should be called as Sindhi Pakistani instead of Karachi Muhajir.

[edit] Recent Vandalism

Some totally ignorant and extremly biased ...... has recently totally vandalised this page but I have rectified his/her non-sense stupidity. Guys if u don't know how to write on an encyclopedia then plz abstain from doing so. Also this page is exclusively for the Urdu speaking Muhajirs of Pakistan. It should not be mistaken with the punjabi immigrants from East Punjab and Kashmir after 1947. Personally I think that this page title can be changed to the Native Urdu speakers of Pakistan as the second generation and third generation ( including me) are native Pakistanis, Who are born and bred here. As many think of Mohajirs as solely and exclusively the native Urdu speakers so the present title can also be maintained.

Also some guys here are continously trying to malign the Urdu speaking community of Pakistan. Posing themselves as native Urdu speakers they are actually extremly against the Urdu speakers of Pakistan. The Urdu speaking community has already suffered a lot at the hands of all other ethnicities of Pakistan, the army and of course greatly by the MQM and its cheif also. We can't tolerate more vandalism and betrayal now, but our centuries old refined culture and values binds us to respect even the rude behaviours of other people. Realton 15:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

There are also some guys who are trying to edit this page according to MQM ideology, by pasting separate links for MQM and other stuff. This is not a page for MQM to paste so many web links, You can do it on the relevant pages. So I have deleted all the MQM links and have pasted only the official website link in the "External Links" section. Realton 14:27, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

So people are trying to edit it according to MQM views so? is that unacceptable after all MQM dose represent a sizable population of Pakistan and most of the population of Karachi so they do have to voice thir views as do you and every one else on all issues Pakistani, its time w all learned to talk and listen to each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.163.113.121 (talk) 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Answer to the Recent Vandalism

I think majority of Pakistanis care about Pakistan as a united country and there are some people who want to divide Pakistanis in terms of groupings like Urdu Speaking Muhajirs , Punjabi speaking Muhajirs or Pashtu speaking Muhajirs. The national language of Pakistan is Urdu and Mogul Empire used to speak Persian not Urdu. The mingling of Persian became Urdu. Pakistanis should feel proud that Urdu is the national language of Pakistan not because Urdu was once spoken in India. The sympathizers of India should understand this carefully that Pakistan had three wars with India and India is still an open enemy of Pakistan. —Preceding unsigned

[edit] New pages should be created for other Immigrant groups of Pakistan

I want to request any sensible and unbiased wikipedian to please create separate pages for the immigrant Punjabis from East Punjab and also the Kashmiri immigrants. Some guys are getting confused as they are taking this page as a whole for all of the immigrants after 1947.This page is exclusively for the immigrant population and their descendants who speak the Urdu language as native or mother tongue.Realton 16:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Regarding this Page

Urdu is the national language of Pakistan and all Pakistanis speak this language. There are no specific Urdu speakers in Pakistan. Punjabis are the largest majority in Pakistan and yet they also speak Urdu so this page is for all immigrants of Pakistan. Language is not a barrier in this case.

[edit] Clarification

The above comments just demonstrate the stupidity of the author who has made them. He is incapable of grasping the widely identified - and thus, correct - definition of Muhajir vis-a-vis Pakistan's various ethnic groups. For what it's worth, East Punjabi migrants don't identify with the term Muhajir. Moreover, the user above is also adding names to the list of notable Muhajirs who were born within the borders of what constitutes modern day Pakistan, before the division of the Subcontinent and don't even belong to communities identifying themselves as Muhajirs. In other cases, he is listing the names of individuals whose families did not even shift to Pakistan following the Partition, because they already resided within the borders of the newly formed state; more importantly, these same individuals belong to communities that don't identify with the term Muhajir (i.e. their roots lie within the regions comprising the state of Pakistan).


[edit] Further Clarification

I would call it as the fact of reality rather than the stupidity. Muhajir is not a recognized term used in Pakistan and does not represent any ethnic group in Pakistan. Urdu is a national language of Pakistan which is being spoken by all the Pakistanis in Pakistan whether he/she is a Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhi or even Punjabi. Let us not forget that there are four provinces in Pakistan and Urdu is the mother tongue of Pakistani nationals. My author friend does not know himself who he is referring as the Muhajir in the first place. Are we talking about Punjabi Muhajirs, Pashtun Muhajirs, Begali Muhajirs, Persian or Urdu Muhajir or even Kashmiri Muhajirs. They all migrated to Pakistan after the partition. Imran Khan Niazi is a Pashtun Muhajir whose family migrated from Afghanistan. Nawaz Sharif is a Kashmiri Muhajir whose both parents migrated from India and were Kashmiri Muslims.General Zia-ul-Haq is a Punjabi Mujahir who was born in Jalandhar, India, in 1924 and Jalandhar is not located within the borders of Pakistan. It’s part of the Indian territory. Thus there are no specific Urdu speaking communities in Pakistan since we all speak the same language Urdu and whether some communities identify themselves as Urdu speaking Muhajirs or not does not affect the true definition of the word Muhajir because it represents all Muhajirs of Pakistan equally.

[edit] What About Bangladeshis?

Were there any significant numbers of "Muhajirs" who went to Bangladesh, but who were not Bengalis themselves? Le Anh-Huy 22:07, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 22:07, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 22:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] What About Arab Muhajirs?

Are we considering those Arab Muhajirs who are the main reason that majority of Hindus and Sikhs became Muslims?

[edit] =================================================================================

What ignorant nonsense is this? Arab conquerers no longer exist in South Asia!...and "Pakistan" was mainly Hindu and Buddhist!...before the Islamic invasions....Sikhs are new! Le Anh-Huy 10:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


Arab Muhajir Muslims are in the majority still. My family name is still the same and is still known as one of the famous tribes in Gaza and South Asian Muslims should be thankful to our forefathers who converted them to Islam. Without these Arabic Muslim scholars majority of Pakistanis would have been either Hindus or Sikhs. Many Arab Muhajirs in Pakistan originally belong to Syria, Palestine, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

[edit] Who is a Mojahir or not

I think defining the term is fairly simple all those who do identify them selves as mojahirs or "urdu speaking" are that after and why every one who dose not subscribe to their view becomes a bit rabid at the mention of the words" Mujahir' is beyond me after all this is supposed to be a free country or is tis a case of some people being more fre then others. Also I am queit surprised by the attitude of my brothern when thy can see discriination far away in places like phalistine etc hwoever are blind to what occours in their own country it is time to learned to listen and talk amoung ourselves without flaring up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.163.113.121 (talk) 07:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How well are the mohajirs really assimilated in Pakistan

The text "After the partition in 1947 there have been many intermarriages that took place between Punjabi, Pashtun and Persian/Urdu speaking communities which is the reason that its hard to identify native Urdu speaking communities in Pakistan. Many Urdu speaking communities are so much merged with the Punjabi, Pashtun and Kashmiri communities that they do not identify them Urdu speaking at all. The second and third generations of these Pakistanis identify themselves as native Pakistanis instead of any specific communities." does not look very objective to me when compared e.g. to [1]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.251.190.230 (talk) 09:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Are the Arab Muslims who settled in South Asia also called Urdu Speaking?

Many Arab Muslim scholars went to South Asia from different Arab tribes to spread Islam. They later settled in South Asia and after the partition in 1947 they migrated to Pakistan. Should these people be called as Arab Muhajirs because they originally were the Arabs like Niazi tribe who call themselves as Mianwali Pathans.



[edit] Muhajir Nothing but a Vague Term

Muhajir term is quite a vague term used in today's world. It could have been encouraged by the political parties but many people are not sure what community it actually represents. Many people are still not sure who are original Urdu speaking Muhajir and who are not. If we consider Urdu speakers as the Muhajir then the both parents must be Urdu speakers not that father is Urdu speaking and mother is Punjabi/Pashtun speaking or other way round. After so many intermarriages in Pakistan it is impossible to identify native Urdu speakers in Pakistan. Some one might be the part of MQM but still it does not mean that they 100% Urdu speakers. I can guarantee you that from 1947 till now there are no specific Urdu speaking communities. This term should have taken out from the dictionary by now. Also Karachi is a known city where many people are Urdu/Pashto speaking people are found but this would really surprise many people when they will find out that they are actually Punjabi speaking communities. I have experienced that many times. I think its wise to forget about the term Muhajir because we still are getting many Afghan and Kashmiri refugees already so Muhajir term represents them better instead of the Native born Pakistanis.

[edit] Avoid Undecent Language

I have removed all comments with undecent use of language. Try to say your point of view in decent language and avoid using racial slogans as it just shows your family uprising. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boston31 (talk • contribs) 18:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discrimination

I am removing the paragraph about discrimination which is unsourced and claiming that Muhajirs discriminate against other Pakistanis and the support behind this is that Musharraf is a muhajir. This is a ridiculous assertion but if someone insists on adding it, find a respectable source which says this. On the contrary, there are many sources Amnesty International which have historically claimed that Muhajirs were discriminated against well through the 1990's Inf fg (talk) 21:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Other sections

Reading the paragraphs after the discrimination paragraph, I see they are all NPOV and ridiculous. Statements like Altaf Hussain has british citizenship and likes to create trouble in Pakistan and MQM still does not consider itself Pakistani and "no one likes Altaf Hussain" are not worthy of an encyclopedia article. Whoever added this can feel free to go to a message board and sound off on these issues and leave wiki articles aloneInf fg (talk) 22:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)