User talk:Mudwater

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[edit] JGB (band)

A discussion about the notability of JGB — a band, led by Melvin Seals, which is a spin-off of the Jerry Garcia Band — has been moved from here to the discussion page for that article at Talk:JGB (band).

[edit] jerrygarcia.com

Thanks for fixing my formatting problems on the Garcia entry - I'm a newbie, couldn't figure it out... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sevenstring (talk • contribs) 02:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

Sure thing. There's a lot going on here, I'm still figuring it out myself. There are a number of different infoboxes, and the way the markup works is not consistent between them, which makes things a bit more complicated. Anyway, welcome to Wikipedia. -- Mudwater 03:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cover song categories

Re: Johnny B. Goode and your Changed category "Grateful Dead songs" to category "Songs covered by Grateful Dead" edit

There has been some considerable discussion (forget where now, but I found it via "categories for deletion"), and the "cover song" categories are being deleted in favor of "artist songs" categories. You should probably look there before you bother changing more songs... John Cardinal 14:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note.
Here is an archived discussion about "Cover songs and subcategories". Is that the discussion you're referring to? "Songs covered by Grateful Dead" is not currently listed in "Categories for Deletion", but that archived discussion does make it sound like "covered by" categories are out of favor. The discussion also seems to imply that it is appropriate to put songs into categories for bands that covered those songs. If so, that would mean that "Grateful Dead songs" is an appropriate category for Johnny B. Goode, even though the Dead didn't write that song.
If you have any more thoughts on this subject, please reply here. For now I won't put any more songs into the "Songs covered by Grateful Dead" category. For the record, the songs that I moved there from "Grateful Dead songs" are: Johnny B. Goode, Me and Bobby McGee, Me and My Uncle, Morning Dew, and Stealin'. I also added the "Songs covered by Grateful Dead" category to the following songs that were not in the "Grateful Dead songs" category: Promised Land (song), Around and Around, El Paso (song), Iko Iko, and It's All Over Now, Baby Blue. -- Mudwater 23:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that discussion and a more recent one. If I were you, I'd just put them in the Category:Grateful Dead songs. John Cardinal 06:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to the second discussion. I wonder if anyone is going to formally suggest that "Songs covered by Grateful Dead" be merged into "Grateful Dead songs". -- Mudwater 23:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grateful Dead song titles

Great heads up on the Peggy-o. The funny thing is someone could spend weeks on end trying to figure out all of the Dead songs and their correct titles. Sounds like a challange to me. Moorematthews 13:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I've found one other obscure one so far. "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" is another name for "In the Pines", which DeadBase lists as having been played on 07/17/66. I wonder if that's the performance that's on Birth of the Dead. -- Mudwater 23:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Garcia/Grisman albums

Hey I could use some help with some articles if you have the time/notion to help. The articles are: Not For Kids Only, Been All Around this World, and Shady Grove (Garcia/Grisman album). Any help would be appreciated. Moorematthews 13:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Those articles look good so far. Did you have a specific type of help in mind, or just in general? You may have done this already, but I would definitely suggest checking out Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums. The main project page has a bunch of specific suggestions for improving and expanding articles about albums. If you own copies of those three (I don't, by the way) it will be easier, but either way that page has some good ideas. One thing that's always a plus is an infobox, and there's an explanation there of how to add those. An infobox with an image of the album cover would be even better. They've got some more minor guidelines too, like putting the names of songs in double quotes, and suggestions for categories. Let me know what you think. -- Mudwater 01:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

No I had not been to the album project page, thanks for that tip. I could use just some general help with the articles. Things like style and content etc. I think things are almost always better with contructive criticism/feedback. Thanks again for any help. Moorematthews 13:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your Grateful Dead template

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy the expanded Grateful Dead template on your userpage. I think it would be a great idea to use it; I especially like the comprehensiveness of it. Keep up the work! --AngulaR 02:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the positive feedback, I appreciate it. -- Mudwater 02:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:MakingOfTheTouchOfGrayVideoVHS.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:MakingOfTheTouchOfGrayVideoVHS.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:SoFarVHS.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:SoFarVHS.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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[edit] The Strange Remain

Weirdness; I was just pursuing through and when I clicked on the link that was there, it took me to some 1920's-ish flapper-esque album. Wasn't aware that some of AMG is jump at times. My mistake. Thanks! -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 17:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. As you know, links do become outdated sometimes, so we need to keep checking them. — Mudwater 18:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:MotherMcCrees.jpg)

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[edit] Old and in the Gray

Since you have been awesome with the others, could you help with the article Old and in the Gray (album). Moorematthews 16:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks to me like it's doing pretty well on its own, except for that pesky suggestion for speedy deletion! I'm guessing that the article will not be deleted, now that you've enhanced it a bunch. Do you ever use a "sandbox" when you're working on new articles or changes to existing articles? That's where you first do the edits on your user page, or better yet on a subpage of your user page, till you're ready to "publish" (see Wikipedia:User page# How do I create a user subpage?). I like doing that because then I feel like I'm not under pressure to get things up to speed right away. One suggestion about "Old and in the Gray" would be to move the track listing before the musicians listing. No biggie but I think that's more in line with the guidelines at WP:ALBUM. Also, I'm a big fan of having an image of the album cover in the infobox. Have you ever uploaded an album cover or other image to Wikipedia? It's pretty easy. Check out WP:UPIMAGE for a "how to". (The first step is to get a picture of the album cover downloaded to your PC.) One key ingredient is to have an appropriate fair use rationale. You actually should have two! One will be added to the image page automatically when you upload the file, if you select "Album or single cover" in the "Licensing" drop down list on the image upload page. Also though you should write your own fair use rationale and include it in the "Summary" box on the upload page. Check out other album cover images (such as Image:AnthemOfTheSun.jpg) to see some examples, and see also WP:FURG. Let me know how all this sounds. — Mudwater 23:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
"P.S." A lot of people don't bother, but I'm a big advocate of including an edit summary, even just a short one, with every edit. See WP:ES. — Mudwater 23:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw that someone had taken off the speedy deletion, I'll have to find my album cover before I can upload it. Thank you for the helpful hints and the edits. Moorematthews 12:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not For Kids Only or Not for Kids Only

Just want to know what your opinion is on the title of the article. Either with "for" or "For", let me know. Thank you. Moorematthews 19:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

My 2 cents are at User_talk:Fisherjs#Not_For_Kids_Only. Thanks. --Fisherjs 20:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I've chimed in at Talk:Not for Kids Only. — Mudwater 00:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] A Puddleduckian is in the House 0< Quack!

Hello Mudwater:

Just checking in to let you know that I'm around doing a little additions to Mark Karan's page and the Jemimah Puddleduck CD page. I noted your remark's at Mark's history page about an additional link not being needed under the "Additional Acts" column. I wasn't too sure whether I should have added that there. No problem with the deletion. I'm the stage and roadie and helper for the JP band. My son Jake, in addition to sometimes helping out with us in JP, also was John Molo's drum tech for three and one-half years with Phil & Friends and is now stage manager for John Fogerty for the last 3 years and drum tech for Kenny Aronoff when Kenny's playing with Fogerty. Nice to see someone is keeping Mark's pages up. Especially at this time when all the positive vibes that can be mustered need to be directed to the improvement of Mark's health.

Thanks... -Larry the Duck- aka/ Oldest Roadie Left Standing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Larry the Duck (talk • contribs).

Thanks for the note. I also added two external links to the Jemimah Puddleduck (album) article, one to markkaran.com and one to the Jemimah Puddleduck MySpace page. I bought the JP CD a few months ago and I really like it a lot. I've never seen the band live but I'm planning on going the next time they play around here. I hope that's soon! — Mudwater 11:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use disputed for Image:DontLetGo.jpg

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[edit] Fair use disputed for Image:OldAndInTheGrayCD.jpg

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[edit] Fair use disputed for Image:ShadyGrove.jpg

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[edit] Fair use disputed for Image:HotTunaCD.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:MotherMcCrees.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:GarciaComplimentsCD.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:GarciaGrismanCD.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:GarciaGrismanSoWhat.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:GarciaReflections.jpg

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[edit] Orphaned non-free media (Image:Kimber-Custom-01.jpg)

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[edit] Kimber Stainless II

Thanks Mudwater. I replied in the discussion page. If you look at it here and make sure the image is expanded to its full size (I hate the way Internet Explorer shrinks images to fit the page sometimes) you can see the II next to the Stainless. Sorry for any confusion. KDR 14:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnote Corrections

Thanks Mudwater for your footnote corrections in my recent contribution to the excellent Jerry Garcia page. Sorry for my ignorance, but I appreciate your generous oversight. Warm Regards --Art4em 23:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)--Art4em 23:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Glad I could help out. (Actually only one of the three footnote changes was for your contribution.) — Mudwater 01:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:SoManyRoadsSamplerCD.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:RunForTheRosesCD.jpg

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:BackstagePassVHS.jpg

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[edit] List O firearms

No feel free to remove, I was trying to re order the list into a more friendly easier to use list but that proved to hard. Right now im just slowly editing it in a word document then going to transfer it. Esskater11 03:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kimber Custom TLE II

Yeah, you're right. Merging the pages is the right idea, and I like the look of your draft. I've got no objections to redirecting the TLE page and the substitution of the Custom II page with your draft. Parsecboy (talk) 14:03, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

After removing 'the' from the subheading, we now have a lot of redundant redirects. I wish there was a bot that could fix this. Hayden120 (talk) 23:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for fixing this slip up. That's what you get when you copy and paste repetitive rationales :P Spellcast (talk) 19:09, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BK page edits

Just a thankyou for a good article edits on Billy's page. The Linda info is no longer correct but
I'm not touching it W/O Billy's OK. Anyway- hope to meet you in Wikiworld Marcia Wright (talk) 03:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] photo

Mudwater-you have your photo-Enjoy ! (I did not catagorize it just uploaded to Commons. titled: BillKreutzmann.jpg Marcia Wright (talk) 03:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I've added it to the article. I like that picture. Do you know what year it was taken? That information could optionally be added to the caption. Anyway, thanks again. — Mudwater 16:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
    • You are most welcome-and if it is OK, I'd like the replies under your talk page. I love that photo but don't remember the date

I enjoyed reading the GD article as well, a heck of a lot of information spanning 30+ years!!! Marcia Wright (talk) 04:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Disputed fair use rationale for Image:ABBAmUni.jpg

cheers, friend. now to clear the rest of the ones on my talk page ;-) tomasz. 21:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yellow Fever (album) rename

Image:WikiThanks.png No problem, and thank you. It is nice to be appreciated every once and a while. Prodego talk 01:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I've sent you an email. Prodego talk 02:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unreleased Albums

I noticed you recently voted in AFD concerning an unreleased album. I invite you take part in the conversation here Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(music)#Unreleased_albums any input you have would be appreciated. Ridernyc (talk) 09:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thankyou

Thanks for the tag for photoreq on Snow Mountain Wilderness talk page. Hope you are doing well. I now consider myself a wikiaddict as I am using our work computer too! As for a date for the BK photo, 1975 is a good year. Please feel free to give me any peer review -type comments (if that is not out of line to ask for). I really did not mean to take on so much but after coming across some really bad articles-Lake Pillsbury the worst, I just had to. Cheers, Marcia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcia Wright (talk • contribs) 01:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Marcia. I've also made a series of changes to the Snow Mountain Wilderness article itself, to give it more "standard" Wikipedia article features. In a way you could consider this a peer review of the article. If you look at what I did, and how I did it, you will see a few things about how to make an article be more "Wikified". One way to see what I did is this:

  1. Go to the article.
  2. Click on the "history" tab, to go to the article's "revision history" page. There you will see all the changes made to the article, with the newest change on top and the oldest at the bottom.
  3. You'll see that I made the last six changes (unless someone changes the article after I write this). For each change, I included an edit summary. For example, the edit summary for the first change says, "Fix link to reference".
  4. For each change, you can click on "(last)" to see a comparison of that version of the article with the previous version. At the top it shows, side by side (before and after), the Wiki markup that was changed, and below that is the version of the article.
  5. After that you can click on "Newer edit" to proceed to the next newer change.

If you do this you'll see that the first change fixed the link to the web site in the References section. The next two changes were to make some of the markup a little more Wikipedia-standard. The change after that was to add a category. Ideally any article will have at least one category. The next change was to add an infobox. Many articles have infoboxes, but articles about different subjects use different kinds of infoboxes. This article uses the "protected area" infobox. Last I enhanced the infobox by adding a locator map.

As for the article's Talk page, in addition to the photo request, I added banners for two "WikiProjects". If you look at the Talk pages of different articles, you'll see that most of them belong to one or more WikiProjects. Basically that's a way of bringing an article to the attention of other editors who are interested in that particular subject.

That's a lot of stuff to think about, but I had fun doing it, and, if you check out what I did, you might find it interesting, from the perspective of editing Wikipedia articles.

Have fun, and let me know if you have any questions or comments.

P.S. 1975, eh? I'll add that to the caption. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Okay, I understand the items you listed except for one: the unordered reference. My guess is that if there is only one source referenced, it does not need intext citation.(?)

I really appreciate the time you are taking for this help Mudwater. Marcia Wright (talk) 15:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

An unordered list is the same thing as a bulleted list. Instead of separating what were then two references using the "<br>" tag, I made them into a bulleted list, by starting each one with an asterisk. That's this change.

As far as whether references should be footnotes or just be listed at the end of the article, both are good, although a footnote is considered somewhat preferable, even if there's only one, because it shows which part of the text you are using the reference for. I would therefore vote for undoing this change. (You can try clicking "undo" for this change on the "revision history" page, but since it's not the latest edit, that might or might not work.)

Also, the standard is to enclose section titles with two equals signs, e.g. "==Flora and fauna==". Titles for subsections (sections within sections) should have three equals signs, e.g. "===Birds===". Some people think the fonts look a little funny that way, but if you check out some other articles, that's how they're generally set up.

Let me know if you have any questions about this change, which fixed the links to the disambiguation pages. For that matter, let me know if you have any other questions too. I think you're doing really well and I'm glad to help you. :-) — Mudwater (Talk) 00:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wilderness Act

Ah, nothing like a fesh pair of eyes to highlight someone's (me)laziness. Thanks for that Mudwater- I am not being detailed-oriented enough. And I had meant to check out the two different Acts, assuming one was an expansion of the earlier one. Also, a related question: Should I remove the red link to the North Coast Wild Heritage law since there is no article on it?

(I just hate red links-they cry out :WRITE ME, write me ) Sincerely,Marcia Wright (talk) 15:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a judgment call when to add or remove red links. The main reason to have a red link is if you feel pretty strongly that there should be such an article. In that case you're pointing out that the article needs to be written, and also pre-linking to the future article, so to speak. If you think something isn't likely to end up having its own article, or if you're not sure, it's generally better not to have a red link. If you find that certain red links are getting on your nerves, I think it's fine to de-link them, and I've done that myself. After all, if the article does end up being written, the link can always be put back in at that time. See also Wikipedia:Red link. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dan Wesson

Hallo Mudwater !

Thank you for your support !

How & where to note improvement for: Daniel B. Wesson, which is on the list for improvement Wikipedia:WikiProject Firearms:image?

  • Daniel B. Wesson (I.)(1916-1978) co-founder of Smith & Wesson company
  • Dan B. Wesson (II.)(1916-1978) founder of Dan Wesson Firearms
  • Dan B. Wesson (III.)(19x-1990) son of II.

some family background User:Dan Wesson/Sandbox/Dan Wesson Thanks Tom --Dan Wesson (talk) 23:06, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. If you mean that the Daniel B. Wesson article is listed as needing cleanup on the WikiProject Firearms page, I wouldn't really worry about that. The members of the project can improve the article further or take it off their list if they get around to it. If you mean that you want to improve that article yourself, then you should just start editing it. Also, I can see from your talk page that you were working on an article called "Dan Wesson" that was speedily deleted. I think sometimes articles get marked for speedy deletion when they shouldn't be, but I don't know much about that. It looks like you're already working with an administrator on that, which is good. I hope this answer is helpful. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Mudwater !

I work hard on the complete theme 'Dan Wesson' this includes the story and the weapons, the

history of Dan B. Wesson II. a grand-grandson of Dan B. Wesson I. + additionally we have a 'Daniel B. Wesson III.'

That will say the article has to be splitted in 3 parts (of family members). That would change the article completely.

I can support II. III. (after additional research also I.) I do not want to change structure before discussion.

PLS. read my comment at: [1] - no need to repeat it here.

Go and have a look in my /Sandbox [Dan Wesson article group]

Than you will understand. Regards Tom —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan Wesson (talk • contribs) 01:23, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Manufacturer Explanation: Dan Wesson Firearms is still the manufacturer as a subsidiary company of CZ.

Thanks for helping me with the other edits :) you were 'quick as a rocket' it was hard to follow :) Tom --Dan Wesson (talk) 01:38, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I was glad to help with "Dan Wesson M1911 ACP Pistol". Also, good luck with the "Dan Wesson" article. Have fun. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh you helped me so much ! Thank you ! I you were a girl i would give you a big kiss now! So i just try to follw the advices you gave me now by editing and make some more nice articles as present :) Tom --Dan Wesson (talk) 02:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Mudwater! I made some more improvements to my article Talk:Dan Wesson M1911 ACP Pistol - what do you think now about upgrading rating ? I would be a pleasure for me. Regards - Tom --Dan Wesson (talk) 13:46, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean changing the rating of the Dan Wesson M1911 ACP Pistol article from "Start" to "B"? If you look at a large number of Wikipedia articles, you'll find that it's pretty hard to get a "B" rating. You can see the formal requirements at Wikipedia:WikiProject Firearms/Assessment#Quality scale. But to really see what this means, go to Category:B-Class Firearms articles and click through to look at the articles about firearms that are currently rated "B". (The links there are to the talk pages, but of course you want to look at the actual articles.) To be honest, I used to think more about article grading, and how I could improve the ratings of certain articles. Now I just try to improve the articles that I enjoy working on, and usually I don't worry too much about the ratings. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

hmm i looked at M16 rifle ariticle which is really better you are right - compared to other B rated its not so far away. Thank for explanations ! Tom --Dan Wesson (talk) 00:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] re: User templates

Thankyou for the information and compliment. I have a template up on my user page for "Wikipedians in Northern California", should I add the other templates as well? Also, I am learning about tables thanks to your work on the section "notable peaks". Much appreciated! This is more addictive than Tombraider- HA! (And better for the brain-although I do miss Lara she was just so cool!)

Can you believe that I didn't know that federal US gov. images are Public Domain? DUH

Again, Thanks for the help, Cheers, Marcia Wright (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New York Review of Books/Wikipedia

Here's an article about Wikipedia, from the New York Review of Books. 
I really enjoyed reading it, and you might too.-Mudwater

Oh my God, I laughed so hard, tears ran down my cheeks and when he got to the part about "Nipples and broccoli" I completely lost it and was on the floor! Best thing I've read in a very long time.

I nominate this essay for main page feature article!!!!!!!

On April 1st of course.

Here's the link for your talk page readers. Excellent, Thankyou Mudwater Marcia Wright (talk) 01:07, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad you liked the article. Yes, it's recommended reading all right. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:WoodstockMoviePoster.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:WoodstockMoviePoster.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 02:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image size

To solve the current problem on images in infoboxes not sizing correctly, remove the "px" from the imagesize parameter, that solves it. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 12:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not Qualified

Hey Mudwater, J. has asked me to do his bio-I told him no, I am not qualified. I would rather that the most experienced editor in Wikiproject: BLP (and/or Musicians?) write it up if they/he/she would be interested in doing it. I don't know anyone else in these groups-nor do I want to give out personal contact info either. He (J.) is very smart. talented and witty like Steven Wright-ish type humor. He deserves a bio IMHO. So, what should I do, if anything? Cheers Marcia Wright (talk) 21:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

When creating a new article about a person, or for that matter about any subject, the key is to establish notability, otherwise the article is extremely likely to be deleted. According to Wikipedia:Notability, "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be notable." Wikipedia:Notability (people) has more specific guidelines for biographical articles. Please take a look at both of those pages, especially WP:N#General notability guideline, WP:N#Notability requires objective evidence, WP:BIO#Basic criteria, and WP:BIO#Creative professionals. An editor creating an article would have to meet those guidelines by providing appropriate independent references. The references can either be published on the internet or on paper, but some things won't be accepted as "reliable", for example, internet forum discussions or blogs. With this in mind, I don't know if J. would qualify or not, whatever his merits as a creative professional and a human being. So, take a look at those guidelines. Would you be able to provide several references that would meet those criteria? If yes, then I would probably be able to write a short article, based on the refs, that would not be deleted. In fact, looking at your work as an editor, I'm sure you're qualified to do so also, although in this case I might be, ahem, more objective. Let me know what you think about all this. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Thankyou for that compliment, you are sweet.
If you have the time, I'd like you to check out J's page on MySpace, he has a bio there.
If all his works that are listed can be solidly verified, do you think it would pass Wiki BLP standards?

Here's the link: Myspace

Also, if on Myspace, there is contact info for him, go for it, just let him know you are from Wikipedia, I have already mentioned you to him in email. Marcia Wright (talk) 01:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems that J. is having a successful and interesting career. He also seems like a cool person. Based on checking him out online for a short time, I like him, and I am a fan of that video he's linked to here on WP. But the question is, would he meet the BLP standards for notability? My own reading of the guidelines is that a person must have had at least a few things written about them, published by reliable, independent sources. That basically means books or articles that are about the person, or that, if they're not specifically about the person, at least talk about him or her at some length. And it's not just what was written that's important, but where it was published. For example, here is an interview of J. But, the interview is in someone's blog on Blogspot, which, for what we're talking about, might not count. If the same thing was published in the San Francisco Chronicle, that'd be a different story.
In other words, I think it's all about the references. Without a few of those that would be accepted by the WP editors who look at these things, it's likely that any article would be deleted. I have been involved in a small number of "AfD" discussions, and it seemed to me that those were decided based on references. Of course, this is just my opinion. Other editors have way more experience in this area than I do.
In looking at this a bit more, I figured out that there was a WP article about J., and it was deleted. In fact, this seems to have happened three times. Since the articles have been deleted, and we're not administrators, we can't see the articles, but if you go to the article creation page, you can see the "deletion log". It starts, "Notice: You are re-creating a page that was deleted...." Click here to see it. Also, here is a copy of one of the deleted articles, on another web site. I stumbled across it when using Google.
Let me know what you think. — Mudwater (Talk) 02:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


Update Dear coeditor? Mudwater :) Here is the mission I have launched. Just want to keep you informed. I have read more pages/policies/guidelines/etc under AfD than I care to admit!!! (And the garbage people try to put on WP)!!! Marcia Wright (talk) 17:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for the info. Yes, you're really a full fledged Wikipedian now. By all means let me know what ends up happening. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

To end this thread of Not Qualified, the only thing to be done with J is to add to Personal life section of BK which either you or I can do. If you are too busy, let me know and I'll give it a try. The deleted copy from Admin Jerry has one good "issue", then she(author) deleted it and wrote in summary "person not relevant" !!!! I hope to never cross paths with her as she does not play well with others.

Let me know OK? I am not trying to dump this on you Marcia Wright (talk) 23:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd say go ahead and update the article, you've got this covered. My one suggestion is to word things as neutrally as possible. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slight problem with references

I have added some information under Personal life section but when I footnoted the last sentence, I realized the whole article is set up differently. I am an absolute freak for footnotes but I will not step on anyone else's editing style, so what do you recommend? Marcia Wright (talk) 23:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Footnote freakiness is encouraged, and I feel similarly obsessed. The article had a references section but was not set up for footnotes. Both of those things can peacefully coexist however. I've gone ahead and implemented my preferred approach with this edit. See also Wikipedia:Guide to layout#Standard appendices and descriptions.

[edit] Just stopping by

Hey Mudwater, Just checking in with you, hope all is well. I just had my first vandalism and of course reported it. A real downer for me. Let me know how it's going with you. Cheers, Marcia Wright (talk) 13:19, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

It's going well, thanks. Lately I've been editing WP a bit less than before, but still a fair amount. Some of my recent edits, which you may have noticed, include this, this, and this, not to mention this. As for your vandalism, was it on an article, or your user page? Can you provide a link to the edit in question? Also, I've never actually reported any vandalism, how do you do that? — Mudwater (Talk) 22:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Nice work, especially the edit on Billy here,
The vandalism was in an article that I had expanded from an existing stub about the indian tribe, Achomawi.Here is the vandalized page, and here is the user's talk page showing increasingly serious warnings. I found the reporting page by just typing in vandalism in the search engine then followed links that looked about right.
That page is here. This user is an IP address so cannot be indefinitely blocked as there may be a whole buch of different people using it i.e. a school network for example. There are "dynamic" addresses and "static" ones. You being interested in computers probably know alot more than I about this. I'm sorry to hear that you will be editing less-if you leave, can you give a personal website for me to check out? Mine is here already- but I don't see a link to one on yours.
"Just don't tell them you knew my name, my darling Sugaree" Cheers, Marcia Wright (talk) 13:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm planning on sticking around for a while at least. I don't have a web site but I could send you my email address, or you can send me an email from WP. (You know how to do that, right?) Re the vandalism, I applaud your efforts to get the offender blocked. I'm watching a fairly large number of articles, some more seriously than others, and a few of those articles get vandalized somewhat frequently. I've become a bit blasé about the whole thing, just reverting the edits and moving on, but it's better to go after these people, to try to stop them from doing it more (depending also on the level of offensiveness, in my view). P.S. I love the "homemade barnstar" on your user page. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thumbs up (and thumbs down)

Thankyou for that quick tutorial on photo size in the edit summary! I assumed it was an "either or" choice of thumbsize w/ caption or larger pixel w/o caption.

Glad you like my homemade barnstar, just poking a little fun at WP.

And lastly, I am now getting messages just before signinng into my account about this IP address and am worried about being blocked due to vandalism from another user. I copied the message to have the instructions it provided in case this happens. Kind of ironic- I try to report a vandal and end up getting blocked because of a vandal, Murphy's Law in effect!

Again, thanks for all your help. Sincerely, Marcia Wright (talk) 12:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Modereko, etc.

Hey, thanks a lot for the help on the Modereko and other jam band/album related articles in the last little while  :) Addionne (talk) 13:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure thing. Thank you for saying so. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Festival Express

Is there a reference to this historic event in any Dead-related articles? Also, same question for David Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name album.

Marcia Wright (talk) 23:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. Is the question whether there are any references to Festival Express or If I Could Only Remember My Name in any Dead related articles on Wikipedia, as opposed to reliable outside references? If so, I don't think there are. Although I suppose that could be arranged. Also, why do you ask? Let me know. :-) — Mudwater (Talk) 00:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes -Are there any references in any WP articles about Fest. Express?
Are there any references to David Crosby's album in any WP articles also?
Sorry, my brain works in severe-shorthand-mode only. I am asking because both those items are ones I think should be ::here somewhere. Festival Express is self-explanatory-I'm sure you are already familiar with it- but Crosby's is kind ::of specialized or rare even. (?)
Oh, and let me add a third- In Cold Blood, SF band, Lydia Pense(Pence?), lead vocals
I think I'm trying to show off here but don't know why. :0 Marcia Wright (talk) 01:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
How about actual articles? Would that "exceed your expectations"?
"Festival Express" — "If I Could Only Remember My Name" — "Cold Blood".
Let me know what you think. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
WOW I'm impressed~much work has been done for music on WP!! My dad took me to see Cold Blood once and I have fond memories of that-I remember digging the oriental guitarist in particular. As you can tell, our dad was a really cool guy. Too bad he recorded over the tapes he made of the band practicing in the living room-not that he would've sold them or anything like that.
You must be an expert on Fair Use rationales from all I've read here.
And one last question- what is your all time favorite GD song, if you HAD to pick just one? Mine have changed over the years and currently is one not written by them but a longstanding classic (Morning Dew). As a teen I was into hard rock so then my favorite was from the Live Dead album. Ok I'll stop rambling now. Cheers Marcia Wright (talk) 14:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
PS Will the GD article go up to the next step from GA status?
The Grateful Dead article is rated B by the Biography WikiProject. There's also a notice near the top of the Talk page, explaining that the article was demoted from GA to B, about a year and a half ago. I haven't studied this too closely, but I believe that these days, if you want an article to be rated GA, you have to have it reviewed outside your WikiProject -- see Wikipedia:Good article nominations. Another potential GA candidate is the Jerry Garcia article. But, it seems that us Deadheads are a bit too laid back to worry much about how "conventional society" rates our articles. I'm half kidding, I guess. Personally I'm a bit daunted by the prospect of trying to get the Grateful Dead article rated GA. I generally prefer to take on smaller tasks than that. It would be an interesting challenge though. In my view, the most important things for any article are also the hardest to accomplish -- really good writing, combined with really good references. (If you go to Wikipedia:Featured#Music, you'll see a list of music related articles that are FA status.) Anyway, the Dead have so many really wonderful songs, I can't honestly say that I have a favorite. Although "Sugar Magnolia" and "Dark Star" are pretty high on the list. I'm seriously considering having the phrase "What a long, strange trip it's been" carved on my gravestone, so "Truckin'" would have to be considered another top pick I suppose. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of the Dead

Maybe you can shed some light on this for me, since you seem to be a fellow Deadhead, and bit of an expert (or so it seems). I was listening to Sirius 32 - the satellite radio Grateful Dead channel - not long ago, and heard what I think was an interview with Dead archivist David Lemieux. I only caught the tail end of the talking, so I am not sure if it was him or someone else. It seems as though they were talking about the Dead's origins as a Rolling Stones cover band. I haven't been able to find much about this (you try googling 'grateful dead' and 'cover' and see what happens...)

Anyway, I think if this is a fact, it is certainly noteworthy in the Dead article, not to mention it is an interesting tidbit... Do you have any idea if this is true, or if I misheard what was going on in that interview? Thanks for any insight. Addionne (talk) 01:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The Grateful Dead did not start out as a Rolling Stones cover band, so they must have been talking about something else on Sirius. They started out as a band of folk musicians, among other things, who had turned electric, and the band was originally called the Warlocks. This is mentioned in the Grateful Dead article. Probably the best place to read about the history of the Dead is in Dennis McNally's book, A Long Strange Trip: The Inside History of the Grateful Dead. See if your local library has a copy, or you can buy it on Amazon for $12.89. I actually started reading it myself not too long ago, but I haven't gotten that far yet. In fact, I'm exactly at the point in the book where the Warlocks form as a band. I seem to end up spending a lot of time on Wikipedia and not much time reading books. I should probably do something about that. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:StoegerCoachGun.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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