Talk:Mudvayne

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[edit] Genre?

1. Mudvayne is not progressive metal. They dont eevn have a keyboardist. 2. Mudvayne is nu-metal. LD 50 is nu-metal, as it features occasional rapcore vocals and funky basslines, although they have outgrown nu for a more alternative sound.

Most progressive metal doesn't even have keyboards... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.56.241.134 (talk) 01:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Like what? Every single progressive rock or metal band Ive ever heard has a keyboardist. Dont confuse progressive metal with sounding different than everyone else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.166.2 (talk) 16:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

How about calling them a just a metal band instead of rock ? One thing is for certain they are metal.122.171.21.133 (talk) 07:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trolling

I want to report trolling on this page and whoever undid all those citations. This isn't the first time it happened before either and the user who keeps doing it should be punished. Those citations were to worthy websites as well such as VH1.com and MTV.com. The User's name is DevilDriver fan who deleted the citations without talking on the talk page. Also without a good reason since they were reliable sources and relevant to the text.


That guy must be retarded. -Etos 9.october.2007. 18:34 (UTC)

[edit] Lock

One used vandalised it. That doesnt mean it should be locked =/ DragonDanceSL 20:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I more wanted it locked as i don't like this band very much, i thought it'd be funny if it were to remain as i saw it

Too bad for you that Wikipedia is not a place to vent your opinions. -- Mattrixed Talk 19:28, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Headline text

Time to face it, Mudvayne plays alternative metal more than any other genre such as Nu Metal or Heavy Metal. Heavy metal refers generally to every kind of metal, but if we get strict, we should clear Heavy Metal from the genre tag, because this is not a Traditional Heavy Metal band, not a NWOBHM band, and not a Heavy Metal Revival band.

This band plays alternative metal, not only for being a vast mix of many genres, but because it even includes alternative rock in the influences...You want examples to argue by themselves? The song Forget To Remember, just to name one. It has riffs straight from alternative rock, and a complex structure which involves the alternative+metal and severe influences.

Now, let's go more complex...I'll name Death Blooms as another exmaple. Is it orthodox to start with acoustic riff and then quickly change to metal riff? No! The structure of both is alternative, so this is another point.

Dig...the alternative treasure. The structure of the song is so unorthodox, parts are not repeatedly played, and also the voice goes along with the riffs, in a groove way. Also through the song, the vocals are more "screaming with rythm" than singing, so that's another point of complexity. Is this a regular metal? No, this is alternative metal.

Enough said. More examples? Find them yourselves.

[edit] More Bio

the bio focuses on the first album, though not very in-depth, and the make-up aspect of the band. More about their other releases would give more of an up to date image of the band

I do have a question. Does anyone have any conformation on rumors of Chad getting hurt like, in the throat and that's why he changed the way he sings? Like I said i need conformation of these rumors. -Souless 3:16

[edit] "Video Analysis" section

I think this section should be dropped entirely or moved to a new article. Most of it is irrelevant to the band itself, poorly written, and somewhat opinionated. If somebody wants it moved to a new article then it really needs to be cleaned up significantly. If no one protests within 2 or 3 weeks, I'm going to remove it. JesusjonezTalk 20:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blatant POV

quote: "The band often showcases Ryan Martinie's jazzy bass playing, and sport emotionally and philosophically in-depth lyrics."

"Many respected reviewers, including Mr X, Mr Y and Mr Z believe Mudvaynes lyrics to be emotionally and philosophically deep, however Mr A does not" is acceptable, this is not.

I'm removing that text - please reference respected reviewers if it's to be re-included. Sorry. GeorgeBills 09:08, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mudvayne are not "Math Metal"

Looking at the Math Metal page is validation of that. Mudvayne have no musical similarities to Cryptopsy, Atheist, etc. Math metal is an off-shoot of technical metal ( which is a subgenre of death metal). They obviously fit as "alternative metal" or nu-metal (a more controversial pick, perhaps.) But a few fast basslines does not make a genre. --- Danteferno 15:40, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

The drummer of MudVayne coined the term. They probably know what it means. MudVayne is not Nu Metal. They do not show the three characterisctics of Nu Metal. They are probably more largely classified as Alternative Metal. kjarvis86 13:43, 2 jan. 2005 (PST) Isn't most of this plagiarised from www.mudvayne.com? Mudvayne is both Math and Nu-Metal. Math Metal because the term doesn't just mean it has to be Death Metal, Math metal is about using Jazz like drum progessions, atonal guitar riffs, odd time signatures. Mudvayne has all of these. They are Nu-Metal, because this is what the definition of guitar is on the Nu-Metal page. Unlike traditional metal, the overall defining trait of nu metal guitar-playing is the emphasis on mood and texture over melody or complex instrumentation, achieved largely through performance or effect, that is definitely Greg. Here is the bassists In nu metal, the bass is often the main focus of the music, acting often as the lead instrument, setting the bands other instruments as acting as rhythm and also to bind the very diverse hip-hop, rock and electronic sounds. The nu metal bass is often slow and reminscent of hip hop or pop music, strutting a funky, loud sound that could arguably compete with the presence of the band's vocalist, that's Ryan for ya. Vocals, Nu metal bands often feature aggressive vocals that range from melodic singing akin to pop and rock (and in many cases punk and emo), guttural screaming and shouting from various forms of metal music and metalcore types, and rapping, that's Chad. The only part that doesn't fit is the drums, which is what helps make them Math Metal.

Why wouldn't Mudvayne be mathmetal in the song "Solve Et Coagula" it has undecipherable meanings so they should be included in the Mathmetal genre. Left Behind 17:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Because such thing as math metal does not exist, aside from being a synonym for tech metal. Tech metal is technical metal, with leading acts like Meshuggah. Mudvayne does not have technical skill nor are their songs technical enough to be called tech metal and they do not even sound like it. Nu-metal or alternative it is.
Saying "Mudvayne does not have technical skill" doesn't exactly prove your point. In fact, most everyone (including their critics) agree that Mudvayne are in fact highly skilled musicians. Especially Ryan and Matt. -- Mattrixed Talk 19:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Mudvayne may be skilled, but there not technical - except ryan martini (sp?), there totally imprecise, especially the guitar parts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.166.2 (talk) 16:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I listen to tech death as well, specifically Necrophagist, but Mudvayne has alot of technical skill in their rhythm section and LD 50 is definitely math metal. The other two aren't though. Anyone other than Victor Wooten who says Ryan's lines aren't technical just proves they haven't listened to Mudvayne. TheThingThatShouldNotBe212 02:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Mudvayne are Math Metal but that doesn't make 'Math Metal' a genre, just as people labelling System of a Down as 'Armenian Metal' doesn't make it a genre either. It's something of note, though. Notsharon 07:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes no one is questioning that, there are other bands in the Math Metal genre now. TheThingThatShouldNotBe212 07:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC) If the singer describes them as Math Metal, then they should be listed as such. To not include them would fall under WP:OR, but as this has been settled by generically saying they're hard rock and heavy metal, it no longer applies. -- Shatterzer0 20:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Groove Metal is Pantera, Machine Head,... Heavy Metal is some Metallica, Black Label Society... but NOT Mudvayne. Alternative Metal and Hard Rock fits best for them. 217.93.206.14 (talk) 19:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames should be dropped?

Surely since the band have abandoned nicknames, and an encyclopedia is not the place to use wild pseudonyms if possible (exceptions would include Marilyn Manson and many others), should we find & replace Chüd and the other nicknames?

Using surnames (or full names?) would seem far more mature to me, more of a respectful nod to the artists than a kind of in-joke (bad term I know) for the fans.

I really think we should avoid using nicknames for discussing early work and real names for later work - with 3 names each for the 4 members over 3 albums this would imply 12 members for the casual reader.

If nobody enters the debate with a good reason not to do this in a week or 2, I'll probably change the names myself. Or if someone changes them in the meantime, all the better.

They shouldn't be dropped because it is part of thier history. If someone comes to this site looking for everything about Mudvayne it should include nicknames


Skewer 12:02, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


You know, there are fans out there that still refer to them as Ryknow, Gurgg, S , d Kud. Its just natural. I say we leave them.the juggreserection 13:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biography

Does the biography seem like it's been plagiarised? It looks very POV and like it came off from another website.

Seems to be ripped right off of here - http://www.pearldrum.com/m_mcdonough.asp ... Definately could be a copyright violation, somebody should clean this up Senner 15:59, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nu-Metal

About the edit that said Mudvayne are called nu-metal by fans of heavy and extreme metal: Fans of heavy and extreme metal can be fans of Mudvayne too. "Detractors" encompasses all those who dislike Mudvayne without classifying them as something else. I think "detractors" is a more accurate word to use. -- Mattrixed Talk 09:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Mudvayne is Nu-Metal, I think it's inceredibly stupid that they are called Alternative Metal because people are afraid of the stigma that surrounds Nu-Metal. it's not a bad thing, and they are Nu-Metal.

no they are not. do they use turntables? no. do they rap? no. the only nu metal quality they have is the focus on the bass. thats it. they are not nu metal DragonDanceSL 21:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Uhh funny you should say that. you see ive defended the fact that they are alt metal for a long time now but now that i think about it, the way that the vocals for Dig are set up are almost rap-ish. and the basslines are very complex. Have you ever seen the Death Blooms bass tabs? now i am a very new bassist myself, so i would have to say there pretty hard but others can prolly do it with no problem. but anyway the point is im a little torn between Alt Metal and Nu-metal. The juggreserection 16:20, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Go look at Alternative metal's wiki entry. It includes nu-metal as derivative of the genre. -- Shatterzer0 18:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Chad Gray, the ing singer of the band specifically declared that they WERE NOT Nu-Metal in an interview, just because some of the music may sound like Nu-Metal at times doesn't officially qualify the band as Nu-Metal, so stop editing the damn page saying Mudvayne are a Nu-Metal band because they aren't.Justerbuster (talk) 11:00, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

this band is nu-metal.seeing as nu-metal and alt. metal are one and the same. 24.139.31.210 (talk) 20:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Nu metal and alt metal ARE NOT the same, if you read the articles. Nu metal came from Alt metal and carved it's own niche so to speak. Alt metal is bands like Earshot, Stone Sour, Seether and so on. Most of these bands tend to be categorized as well with Post-Grunge. The only reason this band is really classified as nu-metal ever is because when they became "well known" (i.e. L.D. 50) was during the height of the nu-metal wave so people (more or less editors and reviewers) decided to lump them all together. It's sad that 8 years after the fact that this band and several other bands who are called "nu metal" but don't deserve the tag are labeled as such because people automatically assume rather than open their ears and minds and absorb the music before they judge. -- Shatterzer0 (talk) 21:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Member articles

Three of the four current members each have their own article, albeit a small article. The link for Chad Gray redirects back to the Mudvayne article. Since there are articles on the other members, there should be a Chad Gray article as well rather than a redirect. I'd start one, but I don't know anything about the guy. CardinalFangZERO 21:10, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is there any person who speaks German fluently?

It's because there is one phatty phat German Mudvayne site which even gives their birthdates...I don't know German that well anymore, I finished high school last year and I rarely use it. And about info on Chad Gray and others there is some info around internet, nothing much, but it's better than nothing, though...I don't know what to do, compile the info I have, or wait for a better one...

[edit] Alternative Metal

They are Alternative Metal, not Nu Metal. Please stop ing around with the genres. Nickoladze 22:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC) Same shit. 24.139.31.210 (talk) 20:53, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Headline text

Time to face it, Mudvayne plays alternative metal more than any other genre such as Nu Metal or Heavy Metal. Heavy metal refers generally to every kind of metal, but if we get strict, we should clear Heavy Metal from the genre tag, because this is not a Traditional Heavy Metal band, not a NWOBHM band, and not a Heavy Metal Revival band.

This band plays alternative metal, not only for being a vast mix of many genres, but because it even includes alternative rock in the influences...You want examples to argue by themselves? The song Forget To Remember, just to name one. It has riffs straight from alternative rock, and a complex structure which involves the alternative+metal and severe influences.

Now, let's go more complex...I'll name Death Blooms as another exmaple. Is it orthodox to start with acoustic riff and then quickly change to metal riff? No! The structure of both is alternative, so this is another point.

Dig...the alternative treasure. The structure of the song is so unorthodox, parts are not repeatedly played, and also the voice goes along with the riffs, in a groove way. Also through the song, the vocals are more "screaming with rythm" than singing, so that's another point of complexity. Is this a regular metal? No, this is alternative metal.

Enough said. More examples? Find them yourselves.

[edit] Should we mention the alternative spelling?

An alternative spelling for the band's name is Mu Dv Ay Ne. Should we mention this, or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Allixpeeke (talk • contribs) 07:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

I don't think it's necessary...I've never met anyone who actually refered to them as that and since "Mudvayne" comprises of the same letters I don't think it will cause any confusion to the unique individual who recognises them as Mu Dv Ay Ne but not Mudvayne. -- Mattrixed Talk 15:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

neither is it neccecary to add the lines between: |Mu|Dv|Ay|Ne| The juggsd86 20:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original Bassist?

I think someone should find out about Shawn Barklay and create an artical on it I can't find anything on him. Skeeker 22:11, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Their original bassist never recorded anything with Mudvayne except some demo CD Kill I Oughta or The Beginning of all things to End. In fact I don't even know if he did that. He never made it big time and judging by the lack of material on him, I'd say he wasn't good anyways so making a page for him would be useless. You should make a page for Martinie since all it does is redirect here since some guy sabotaged his page. TheThingThatShouldNotBe212 02:35, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

im pretty sure he quit the band due to drugs . god bless shawn for making the right move and moving on good luck with "SPRUNG" (this is the band he's in now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.78.52 (talk) 07:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images And Member Biographys

I don't know how to put an image on here so it would be nice if someone did one for Chad Gray. And some one needs to make articles for Ryan and Matt, there used to be but I don;t know why there arent anymore. Skeeker 19:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Like I said some troll deleted theirs and put insulting comments before he deleted it. TheThingThatShouldNotBe212 02:35, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I hate idiot people Skeeker 01:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

The pic for Tribbett is not relevant any more as the band do not wear makeup any more. Does anyone have a replacement? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Notsharon (talk • contribs) 02:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Using that argument, I suppose the page for the Berlin Wall shouldn't have a picture of the wall, since the wall doesn't exist anymore. Just because they don't wear makeup anymore, doesn't mean the photo is irrelevant. In fact, it's quite relevant, since to any reader who has not seen the makeup before, it gives them a visual aid. -- Mattrixed Talk 14:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Good point, but i do think this article needs an additional pic. Maybe a group shot or something.the juggreserection 13:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Beginningofallthingstocome.jpg

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ElDeeFifty.jpeg

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[edit] New album

Who got the name Shades of Gray and where did you get it. Skeeker [Talk] 18:45, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

i dunno where it's from, but it's BS cuz they just announced via myspace that "Our next album is titled "By the People, For the People,"".68.255.187.211 16:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
That is a fan generated album, not the studio album due in 2008. Skeeker [Talk] 20:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
you're right about that, but that still doesn't explain where the name "shades of gray" comes from. i say until we have a verifiable source for that album name it should be changed to "upcoming 4th studio album" or something similar.65.43.218.67 02:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Skeeker [Talk] 03:00, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
i'd go ahead and make the changes right now but theres an article for "shades of gray" already and i don't know if i can change the title of it or if a new article would have to be created and i don't want a dead link sitting there. i'm also not sure if it should be the 4th or 5th as kill i oughta/tboate was technically recorded in a studio, but was originally an independent release. i think at this point it'd be best to go with "Upcoming studio album", release date TBA/TBD.65.43.218.67 07:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
we should atleast put that it is rumored as Shades of Grey though, so that when people see the name all over the internet they'll know they're talking about this album.Justerbuster (talk) 04:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
TBOATTE isn't a studio release it is a re-release with bonus tracks and a new name. I moved the page to Mudvayne's fourth studio album Kill I oughta is a studio album. Skeeker [Talk] 21:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)