Talk:MTH Electric Trains

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"Although MTH is disliked by Lionel collectors because its reproductions have lowered the market value of all but the most pristine vintage Lionel equipment, and disliked by some other hobbyists because of its aggressive marketing and legal tactics, MTH is widely credited with bringing innovations into a hobby that had changed very little since the 1950s, as well as lowering prices."

Run-on sentence?

[edit] previous unsigned post

was...00:30, 28 November 2006 Hawk82 (Talk | contribs)

After looking at it, Hawk82 seems to be right about it being a run-on sentence. It should probably be at least two sentences to substantiate a proper paragraph as well. I started to edit this but ran into difficulties; I can neither quantify nor qualify the statements. All Lionel collectors dislike MTH? I believe that bringing inline citations from sources could help qualify many of the statements.

The logical distillation of the paragraph is;

Although MTH is disliked by Group A for their particular reasons and MTH is disliked by Group B for their particular reasons, MTH is widely credited with being quite innovative and affordable.

I assume that the author meant to tack something like '..and therefore MTH remains popular amongst collectors.' ...or something to that effect. The first clause (being about popularity) is versed against the second clause (innovation and affordability) but it is as if the conclusions of what the author was saying was left off. Hopefully, he will clarify..he's done a very good job with his other contributions to this article and it is important to understand it as he intended. --Berean Hunter (talk) 13:55, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It sounds like an amiable recap of conversations between avid enthusiasts, rather than anything factual. None of the elements of this sentence have citations. The statement that little has changed since the 1950s seems to be driving at something, but it's impossible to tell what. Certainly the hobby has changed hugely in some ways since then (digital control, Z-gauge, etc.)

Although the article as a whole is politely worded and loosely informative, Wiki isn't "Model Railroader", it's an an encyclopedia.24.6.66.149 (talk) 11:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Part of me just wants to delete the sentence. Maybe some would want to delete the whole entry, but if Lionel belongs here, then I would argue MTH belongs, because MTH is a significant figure in Lionel's history. And MTH is very controversial and incendiary, not at all unlike Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or even George W. Bush. You can't have a George W. Bush entry without mentioning who does and doesn't like him and why, and I think the same of MTH.

I'll tell you all of the thought that went into that sentence and let others sort it out.

When MTH came on the scene, Lionel's product line hadn't changed very much since the 1950s--in many cases, still using the same old tooling with new paint jobs on it. MTH came along, started offering products with more accurate scale proportions, truer to life paint schemes, and more powerful motors. This started a game of one-upmanship that continues to this day. MTH endeared itself to a segment of the hobby because of these contributions. There are some Lionel partisans who hate MTH, but they love the things Lionel did in response to MTH, so one could conclude even those hobbyists would be less happy--or into a different scale--if MTH hadn't come around.

Many of those who are more interested in collecting than in operating don't like MTH. MTH makes reproductions of vintage Lionel equipment, and the availability of MTH's reproductions has diminished the value of all but the most pristine Lionel originals. People who spent decades building collections don't like that very much. This is a two-edged sword of course; some people really like being able to walk into a hobby shop and buy mint-condition reproductions that look convincing, and the thought of buying originals never even occurs to them.

As far as other objections in regards to MTH... MTH was the first company to do its manufacturing in Asia, and eventually everyone else had to move production there to compete. Some people are very bitter that their Lionel trains aren't made in Michigan anymore, and they blame MTH. Others have had a bad experience with an expensive MTH engine failing, so they hate the company. That's kind of like a Ford vs. Chevy thing, since Lionel engines can break too. MTH has also been very aggressive in regards to patents and litigation, and that offends some people.

This can't go in the main entry, but I hope it brings a bit of clarity, and maybe somebody can do a better job of objectively (and politely) stating the controversies. -64.123.56.132 (talk) 01:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I was the author of the above. My session timed out on me. -Dave Farquhar (talk) 01:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)