Talk:Mouse

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[edit] Disambiguation page

According to WIkipedia naming conventions, the page is supposed to be named for the most common thing that the word reference. I came here looking for a computer mouse. Given the prevalence of the internet and computers today, I'd say its at least as likely that someone is looking for computer mouse when they come to this page, therefore I think we should either redirect directly to mouse or a disambiguation page with both on it.

This suggestion has been here a while and I see no objections so why don't we carry it out?

I disagree; I think people looking up "mouse" in an encyclopedia are more likely to expect to see an article about the animal, so I think the disambiguation line at the top is plenty. That's just my intuition, though. --Allen 04:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. People looking for a computer mouse will expect to get the animal. --Aranae 17:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Great -- can someone carry this out? I don't know how

When I hear of mice I think of cheese. Drutt 22:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

that is because you live on a very unhealthy diet of stereotypes.

124.197.50.143 20:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

HERE, HERE!!! i totally agree with u

--> It's "hear hear".

I came here to look for the real mouse and its genology. So there is no issue per se. However A clarification / direction element could be added to point people to computer mice and other topics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.61.43 (talk) 07:57, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intelligence

The new front picture for the mouse is soo cute! Mice (or Mouse's) were once believed to be the most intellegent form of life in the universe. The technology the possesed would shame our own. They travelled on the back of great beasts called 'cats'. They may have possibly hunted the noble mole rat, allthough historical records from this time are vauge. The leader of the mouse's (or mice) was a great mice (or mouse) called Gerreld. He wore a cardigan and through the technological miracle of 'musical time displacemnt' decided to sacrifice any that liked 'Lady in Red' by Chris Du Burggggg(sic).

Well, according to some users on the talk page of the Velociraptor, they have a pretty big brain-body ratio.

The Western House Mouse, Mus domesticus, from Western Europe, the Americas, Africa and the Pacific has now been considered a species separate from the Eastern House Mouse from eastern Europe and Asia (see Mitchell-Jones et al. (1999), The Atlas of European Mammals.

With as fast as murines speciate these two forms probably do represent phylogenetic species. I know some good genetic work regarding that has come out of the Suzuki lab and others lately. I don't know what the conclusions have been regarding this. The M. domesticus issue has gone back and forth. I think a number of people are hesitant to be the one to make the change considering how many research labs would have to start changing what they call these. I'd suggest waiting the few months to see what Musser and Carleton say in the new Wilson and Reeder Mammal Species of the World before we change things. --Aranae 09:21, March 14, 2005 (UTC)

They're pretty smart, all right. Dora Nichov 03:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Essential, yet missing data

Here are some simple questions I would expect to be covered by an encyclopedia.

1. Their maximum length and weight (wild specimens).

HB: 45-125 mm, TL: 28- about 130 mm, WT: 2.5- >34 g (Novak, 1999). Size varies considerably by species. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

2. Type of family grouping or parental care that can be observed.

3. Natural habitat.

forests, savannahs, grasslands, rocky habitat (Novak, 2005). In Africa they tend to particularly like forest edge, derived savannah, and of course agricultural areas. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

4. Pathogens and parasites carried.

5. Accurate identification of important species, such as a comparison of ear shapes, colours, droppings, scent, sounds, &c.

Cranial characters, size of certain features, aspects of tooth morphology. Measurements combined with geography are the principal way of getting there. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

6. Common examples of property damage.

7. Coverage of their hibernation and nesting practices.

M. minutoides nests in shallow burrows. M. caroli and M. cervicolor burrow. M. shortridgei and M. pahari nest aboveground. Most species will construct nests of grass, fibers, and shredded material. (Novak, 1997) --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

All in all, the current article is disappointing.

--I second the request for Coverage of their hibernation and nesting practices. How do mice survive subzero winters? Do they group together like snakes? Thanks. --Demonesque 19:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I've added in a few answers to these questions. The answers are exclusively for Mus. Perhaps the info can be integrated. --Aranae 20:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

They don't hibernate. They can also survive in any virtually habitat. Dora Nichov 03:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

8. Natural foods, 'Nutrition' section is on how to feed domestic or lab mice. --Nate1481(^t/_c) 17:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Song of the deer mouse

The song of the deer mouse is a great external link, but is more appropriate at Peromyscus and has been moved there. This page deals primarily with Mus and a few other Old World mice. --Aranae 16:40, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pinkies

sometimes new-born mice are called pinkies... see if [[1]] deserves to be incorporated in the article --Melaen 17:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mice in fiction

This debate is far from resolved, see Talk:Vole, Talk:Hamster, Talk:Guinea pig, Talk:Capybara, Talk:Kangaroo mouse, Chipmunk, and Rat. I would argue that the mice in fiction section is among the best example of a "[rodent] in fiction" section. --Aranae 22:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Resolved, eh? Okay, I won't pursue it.  Run!  22:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mice and cheese

Do mice really eat cheese? Where did this belief come from?

Yup, they eat cheese! But it isn't usually the main component of their diet. Justforasecond 00:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Not always, I had a slight mouse problem a couple of weeks ago and I just found what they were snacking on: the cheese pouches from my Easy Mac stash! -Dandaman32 19:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought cheese poisoned them, actually.

They eat cheese, but it's not really their favorite food. They like seeds more. But they'll eat anything, even soap and candles. Dora Nichov 03:37, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

They really like sweets. Marcipan makes a much better mouse trap bait than cheese. --Klausok 10:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I find peanut butter to be a very, very efficent bait for my trap. my trap is a wire box with a metal floor, The bait is placed on the metal floor, The mouse climbs in through a hole at the top, and once in the trap cannot escape.

I work for a pest controll cmpany and the favorite food of mice is bird seed. Dec 21,2007 (Nick S)

Lol when i bait a mouse trap i make it long complicated and completely waste of space its fun to make i get a meat cleaver tie it to a cucumber slice then when teh mouse eats it a rock sitting on top of the slice as a counterweight falls off making the meat cleaver fall and cut the mouse in half then my cats eat it. XD 74.84.9.226 (talk) 13:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Living

Where does mice live?Underground?

I think mice live in your house--Taida 00:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Anywhere they can make a living. As long as it's comfortable and dark, it should be fine for them. Dora Nichov 03:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

They've lived in apartments I've lived in. I'm surprised this article doesn't mention human environments and adaptability. --Oakshade 06:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Mice will live in ur house, apts, vehicles, etc. They like insulation and papper products for nesting. They will live underground usualy near a heat source if possible. Dec 21,2007 (Nick S)

[edit] Reverted addition to "Knockout mice"

I've just reverted the following addition (in bold) to the Knockout mice section:

Knockout mice are mice which have had a specific gene or genes inactivated, either through deletion or disruption of the portion of the genome containing the gene in question. This enables the study of the function of that gene and more rare bloodtypes (that can react with respiratory failures in smaller species of the common melifialicous house "mice") and genes interacting with it.

If anyone can figure out what that's supposed to mean, feel free to clarify and restore it. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bedding

The bedding discussion about corn cob bedding is confusing. -65.217.42.131 10:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question? (Mice & Rats)

What is the difference between mouse and rat in biology? How to tell the difference by looking? -65.217.42.131 10:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Have you visited our Rat page? They are different species (sort of like the difference between a horse and a zebra). - However, they are close enough together, and "confusable" enough, that a section/page on the difference between mice and rats might be a good idea. -- 20:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC) (P.S. I split your question into separate topics.)

[edit] Feeder mice

Are there any legal issues with feeding live mice to snakes and reptiles? Drutt 21:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not necessarily a commensal relationship

Currently the article states: "These species of mice live commensally with humans." (referring to both house and deer mice); however it is possible to take issue with this stance because often deer mice are known to carry the Hantavirus which can prove fatal to humans, which goes against the definition of a commensal relationship with humans. For example,

Excerpt: In Washington State , the deer mouse (Peromyscus maniculatus) is the main carrier of hantavirus. About 1- 5 hantavirus cases are reported each year in Washington State and about one third of the cases have been fatal. [2]

I think the Wiki should not necessarily infer that mice are harmless. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.49.57.137 (talk) 15:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

I had a mouse in my house, It left black droppings everywhere, uranated in two bags of puffed rice cerial, nibbled tomatoes, bread, and other fruit, and ended up in trasparent container as a "television" for the cats, rushing around the trap as the cats watched it, chased it, clawed at it, and sat on it's wire box. This is not a commensual relationship.

Well, a neighbor's dog can be a similar nuissance. But that doesn't matter :) The relation is commensalism because generally speaking, we don't eat mice, they don't eat us. They really don't compete for food from us either. Most live outside, and the few that don't... I mean come on, it's a small rodent. It would take years for a mouse to eat you out of house and home. Whether you like sharing food with them is another matter :)

Re: hantavirus, that should be in the hantavirus article. Saying that mice are carriers of viruses is kinda like saying people are carriers of AIDS. That does not make mice inherently more harmful to humans. 72.193.219.212

Re: "It will take years for mice to eat u out of house and home", not always true, dont forget that u can have a large amount of mice living in ur home, in that case they can eat u out of house and home. I have been to homes where the problem is reallly bad and have seen that happen. Anything is possible if given a chance. Dec 21,2007 (Nick S) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.108.210 (talk) 21:06, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Effects of caloric restriction?

Does this really belong in its own headline, let alone the second headline of the article? It seems somewhat obscure. Brianga 04:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed; remove or kick to the bottom. I read it three times and still can't make snout or tail out of it. 81.240.94.152 22:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

• I went ahead and removed it. It seems like its already covered in Estrogen receptor anyway. Brianga 06:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

It'd be nice when removing whole sections that you 1) check to see that the most recent edits aren't vandalism and undo them if they are, 2) put an edit comment explaining what you are doing so it doesn't look like random blanking and 3) remove the correct section and not the laboratory mice section. I reverted the vandalism and the blanking of two sections, but if there's actually discussion to get rid of the one, OK, fine, no harm done, but a little more care in editing would prevent this kind of confusion. DreamGuy 08:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speech recognition?

I heard from a source (my mother, of asian descent) that mice/rats may be able to recognise your speech. Which is why she refers to them by the Chinese word, or by saying: that small thing with four legs. I forget why she is so afraid of them knowing of our knowledge of their presence.

But is their any proof at all they could do this, or is this completely false?

ANOTHER USER: it is false, mice will not know when you are referring to them, just another tall tale

Scientists controlled a mouse with voice commands.[3] Jecowa 21:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Mice of course will not understand words unless specifically trained to do so. For instance, pet mice can come when called and do other simple commands, but unless they are taught these words, they will only hear them as a string of sounds, much like dogs have no idea what you're saying unless you teach them. La Bicyclette 05:23, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction tag

I removed this tag, as the talk page does not contain any relevant discussion about the article contradicting itself. If the alleged contradiction is the issue of the mouse's commensal relationship with humans, then there's no argument until someone comes up with a citation that explains how occasionally acting as a disease vector (a large number of mammals do, and so do other humans) or eating minuscule amounts of our food constitutes some other type of relationship. Unigolyn 11:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I've uploaded a much better picture of baby mice just a day old, it's my own picture and it's much clearer then the one already there. I don't know how to link, but it's called Babymice2. I can't edit the page even though I'm logged in, so if someone else would change it, that'd be great :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShwSie (talk • contribs) 11:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is the first sentence about rats?

Really, the whole first sentence seems anomalous. Is there a reason to include it?CarlFink 11:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It was a really stupid act of vandalism that has been reverted. If a vandal was trying to do something funny, they failed. Midtempo-abg 14:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Low importance?

OK, I'm not a biologist, but surely the mouse should be considered higher than "low importance". This assessment was not applied by a member of the project. Could a project member perhaps re-assess this. Thanks, Walkerma (talk) 06:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I would also like to see a member of the project re-asses the consideration that the mouse is of “low importance.” --DavidD4scnrt (talk) 08:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I have a question about mice that I can't find the answer to

We like to hike on a popular trail around a local lake in Washington State. The other day we went there to hike and when we got about 3/4 the way around the lake we began to see several dead mice along about 1/4 mile stretch of the trail. I talked to a friend of mine who does a lot of hiking and hikes that particular trail everyday. She said that she had been sweeping them off the trail for the last couple of days. She also said that she had noticed that on other trails as well and that it seemed to only happen at certain times of the year. Is there a reason for this mass death? Is there something poisonous that they may be feeding on that only grows at certain times of the year? I know mice are related to lemmings but I read that the mass suicide legend is just a myth. Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktgyrl (talk • contribs) 16:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Condensed "as pets" and "more as pets"

Wow was that some bad writing. And there totally dosn't need to be two sections. Pare, consolidate, done.

ZoundsPadang (talk) 23:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC) zoundsPadang

[edit] Un-Wikipedian language

There is too much usage of the word "you" in the "Mice as Pets" section. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, not a mice care tutorial, so it shouldn't act as if the section was talking to you. I would apreciate if somebody fixed this. Thank you. Thegargoylevine (talk) 23:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh lighten up XD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.84.9.226 (talk) 13:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Thegargoylevine and would encourage anyone who wants to to bring the section up to wikipedia standards. --Aranae (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)