Talk:Mount Katahdin

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[edit] Picture is Incorrect!!!

This is not Katahdin...it sort of looks like Doubletop Mountain (Northwest of Katahdin), as seen from Daicy Pond. I do not know how to change it, so please somebody help!

Are you sure? Can you check on the original source? The picture was taken from the United States National Park Service page at http://www.nature.nps.gov/nnl/Registry/USA%5FMap/States/Maine/NNL/MK/ . It looks like Chris73 may have squashed the image horizontally, so it may not look correct. I can re-upload a unsquashed version, but I want to double check that it is the right mountain. -- hike395 03:56, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Found a different (NPS) pic. Hopefully that is correct. -- hike395 04:28, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

New photo is correct, but squashed as noted. That old photo is Fort Mountain, from Daicy Pond inside Baxter Park. I have some pretty good shots of Katahdin I've taken and would be happy to supply. For instance here's a nice one:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1100/sort/1/cat/500/page/3

TJ aka Teej

Hi, Teej. About the photo --- it's an old NPS photo, if you have a better one, feel free to replace it. There are two methods for uploading photos, depending on whether you want to make the photo available to just the English Wikipedia or all languages. In either event, get a hi-res photo ready on your computer with a sensible filename (that filename will get copied up to the Wikipedia).
If you want just English, click on "upload file" to the left, then follow the instructions. When you're done, there will be a Wikipedia page with the same name as your image. So, if you called it "Katahdin.jpg" the correct link would be Image:Katahdin.jpg. In the infobox, replace the existing jpg link with your new file, perhaps giving it a new caption.
If you want all of the 'pedias (the recommended option), go to http://commons.wikimedia.org, click on upload file, and follow the directions. Getting yourself a user name on Commons may be a good idea (first). The extra steps needed for a Commons image is that you should find a category or article at Commons to fit the picture into (I've put the existing pic into the Commons category "Mountains of the United States"). The cool thing about Commons photos is that you don't have to do anything special to use it --- again, if you've uploaded a photo named Katahdin.jpg to Commons, just link to it like Image:Katahdin.jpg here at the English wikipedia.
In either event, you'll have to decide how you want to license your personal photo. It's up to you, although non-free licenses are not permitted at Commons. People typically license using GFDL, so you can add the template {{GFDL}} on your image description page. Or you can release it to the public domain with {{PD}}
Hope this helps. -- hike395 06:27, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Correct name of peak?

However, more to the point: the correct name of the Mountain is Katahdin, not "Mount Katahdin". Katahdin is a Penobscot Indian word meaning "greatest mountain", and therefore calling Katahdin "mount greatest mountain" isn't correct. See http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com I have made a wiki entry for Baxter State Park, and I've uploaded a photo of Katahdin to wiki, but can't figure out how to add photos to entries. I bet it's easy, and there's simple instructions, but I haven't found them. Help please! TJ aka Teej

And, re name, check out http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnis/web_query.GetDetail?tab=Y&id=579940 ... The official US government name for the mountain is Mount Katahdin (this USGS database is contains the official names of all sorts of US locations).
-- hike395 06:27, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
re name, The USGS added "Mount" no doubt for their own ease, not for accuracy. And while the USGS assumes authority in this matter, it is tradition, use, and accuracy that have the majority of those familiar with Katahdin to call it by the proper name. The native peoples called it Katahdin, as did the early white explorers, the later lumber interests, and the eventual owner, Gov. Baxter. The authority that manages Katahdin and Baxter State Park uses "Katahdin" exclusively.
User:TJ aka Teej

When is correcting an error considered taking a POV? Apparently, only when your POV is that the correct name, not the common mistake, be used by Wiki. The mountain's name is Katahdin. Here's a quote, from the man who purchased Kaathdin, and gave it to Maine: "Man is born to die, his works are short lived. Buildings crumble, monuments decay, wealth vanishes, but Katahdin in all its glory forever shall remain the mountain of the people of Maine." -Gov.Baxter Oh well, I guess Wiki will just have to be yet another example of people from away calling Katahdin by the wrong name. Naught for nothing, but by saying "Mount Katahdin" you are saying "Mount Greatest Mountain."

Check out Wikipedia:NPOV, especially "The basic concept of neutrality". Here we have a classic multiple-view problem: the USGS claims that it is "Mount Katahdin" and people around the peak say it is "Katahdin". Both of these names are significant: the USGS is the official repository for names but local usage is also very significant. The neutral presentation is to say that the USGS says one thing and the local people say another. This describes the conflict, but does not take sides. Saying that the USGS is correct and the local folks are wrong is POV. Saying that the USGS is wrong and the local folks are correct is also POV. Both of these latter two statements re-open the conflict, rather than describe it. See what I mean? If you'd like to rephrase what I wrote, please feel free, but please try to keep this in mind.
Re "Mount Greatest Mountain" --- kind of off-topic, but there are lots of fun examples of this. My favorite is The La Brea Tar Pits, which would translate from Spanish as "The The Tar Tar Pits".
-- hike395 21:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help and excellent explanation, Hike395.

On the subject of what the proper name is for this mountain-- I was told since I was a child that "Mount Katahdin" is incorrect. I have lived throughout New England (including Maine) my entire life, and I've found the convention of calling it simply "Katahdin" to be consistent, with the explanation that "Mount Katahdin" is redundant. I have also hiked Katahdin numerous times, and unless I'm mistaken, "Katahdin", not "Mount Katahdin", is used exclusively throughtout Baxter Park and its literature-- you can even check Baxter's website on this point (http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/). I only mention my residency in NE to lend validity to my claim that the use of "Katahdin" is anecdotally widespead, but if there's some other data out there that says otherwise, feel free to cite it. I think the resolution here is to use the widely-accepted name, "Katahdin" for the title of the article, and to mention the naming aberration in the article.

Is this a failure to adhere to a NPOV or is the USGS just plain wrong? I believe this case to be the latter. -- Dan Barowy

In cases like this, when the title of an article is in dispute, we have to look at the Wikipedia:Manual of Style. Sadly, there isn't an established policy for geographical names, only a proposed one, at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). That proposal directs that the article title should be the "single widely accepted English name" of a geographical entity, and gives two criteria that must be fulfilled.
In the case of Katahdin, Encarta gives it as "Mount Katahdin", Columbia Encyclopedia gives it as "Katahdin", so they are inconsistent. This violates the first criterion, so there is no "single widely accepted English name".
Now, the proposal directs us to use the official name, which sadly is the USGS "Mount Katahdin". So, I think we're stuck with "Mount Katahdin" throughout the article, except in the lead paragraph, which describes the controversy. I'm sorry if this offends Maine residents -- it's unfortunate.
-- hike395 07:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

No one here is offended, just amused at people from away telling us what we should call our mountain! It is "Katahdin" - no matter how widely accepted other people's errors are. I wonder though - how large a geographical area should be considered for the "single widely accepted English name" of a landmark? The people of Maine call their mountain "Katahdin" as did the Native Americans before them. People outside the region don't know the mountain's real name, and it seems that Wiki isn't here to help them learn. TJ aka Teej

I'm not from Maine (I live a few states away), and I can testify that serious outdoorspeople mostly call it Katahdin, pure and simple.

65.213.77.129 (talk) 18:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] nice pic

Love the panoramic photo, Teej! I put it down towards the end, because WP articles seem to always start with an intro paragraph, and not a pic. It's too wide for use in the infobox (I like it taking up 700 px, it would be a shame to shrink it)

-- hike395

That's fine by me, I've only just figured out how to add photos and use the editting language to place them into articles. Teej