Talk:Mother Supreme Council of the World

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It has been proposed below that Mother Supreme Council of the World be renamed and moved to Supreme Council, Scottish Rite (Southern Jurisdiction, USA).

The proposed move should have been noted at Wikipedia:Requested moves.
Discussion to support or oppose the move should be on this talk page, usually under the heading "Requested move". If, after a few days, a clear consensus for the page move is reached, please move the article and remove this notice, or request further assistance.

Maintenance use only: Add to WP:RM {{subst:RMlink|Mother Supreme Council of the World|Supreme Council, Scottish Rite (Southern Jurisdiction, USA)|REASON|section={{{section}}}}}

[edit] Rename?

Wikipedia policy is to use the most common name for things as the article title... and "Mother Supreme Council of the World" isn't all that common, even though it is part of the "official" name. Shouldn't this be renamed to something like: "The Supreme Council, 33°, AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA", with the the official full title listed as an alternate name? Blueboar (talk) 13:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

OK... per my reasoning above, I am formally requesting a move to: Supreme Council, Scottish Rite (Southern Jurisdiction, USA). As is indicated in the article itself, something like this seems to be the most common varient of the entity's name. Please discuss. Blueboar (talk) 18:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Don't Rename, Don't Move

Mother Supreme Council of the World is, I feel, the correct title of the page. That is what it is, that is what it often known as by Freemasons, and that title conveys the proper originality of the organization. It is the Mother of all Supreme Councils of the Scottish Rite. It is a correct and historical name, as well as a name that conveys the propper meaning. There is is no page for the Supreme Council of the Northern Jurisdiction...why?--Because "WIKIPEDIA POLICY," is to have pages on things that are notable. This is notable BECAUSE it is the MOTHER SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE WORLD. Honest to God, if you had not the gumption, will, and/or KNOWLEDGE to create this article in the first place, why the sudden fascination? I have personal connections to the damned thing! Sorry, but I am really sleep-deprived and am not in a good mood, but your argument seems really assenine, because just as many people know of it by my proposed title as by yours, which is no more or less accurate, though mine is more significant to the history of the group. Members of the Freemasonry project here have helped me edit the page, and have not argued one tiny bit for a change in name. Unless you want a plethora of very un-notable articles to pop up concerning this subject, why don't you leave well enough alone?

As-is, it meets the criteria, without the title and main description being unnecisarily redundant because of minimally hashed-out arguments elsewhere. I will provide links to the page from other Freemason articles concerning Supreme Councils, but you must understand that it remains the foremost body of the Scottish Rite, and therefore the title is entirely accurate. People that want to know what this is should get a page with an accurate title, not a merely technical one. I will set up more re-direct pages if you wish.

Mainly, CEASE YOUR OBFUSCATION OF MASONIC MATERIAL ON WIKIPEDIA! Freemasons stand for liberty and the freedom of individuals. If you want to invest your obviously vast ammounts of free time, create your own article, and talk to me about merging it later, once it becomes more notable and proven to be more "common." —Preceding unsigned comment added by FearAndLoathing08 (talk • contribs) 11:11, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoa... This is not an attempt to "obfuscate" masonic material on Wikipedia. Nor is it an attack on Freemasonry (Just so you know I am a Freemason, and proud of it) ... this simply has to do with Wikipedia's nameing conventions... When there are multiple names for something, we are supposed to use the name that the greatest number of English speakers (not just Freemasons) would recognize. Run a simple google search on "Mother Supreme Council of the World" and you will find that most of the hits use that title as a secondary one (usually in paretheses). Even the Scottish Rite, SJ web page is not consistent (see their forum page for example). All I am saying is that other titles such as "Supreme Council, Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction USA" are more common.
No one is doubting that the SJ is the "foremost body of the Scottish Rite", nor even that it is the "Mother Supreme Council of the World"... that title should continue to be mentioned (and I would mention it prominently, in bold, as an alternate name... as in: "Also known as The Mother Supreme Council of the World")
As for why there is no article for the Supreme Council, Northern Jurisdiction (or any of the other Supreme Councils in other areas of the world)... the answer is simply that no one has written it yet. Lack of an article does not really mean anything. Blueboar (talk) 12:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)