Talk:Mother's Day

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Contents 1 New Addition 2 Mary Worship? 3 International info needed 4 Disputed 5 Mother's Day vs Mothers' day 6 Women's Day vs International Women's Day 7 Inga Sander?? 8 Children's Day? 9 Mother's Day in South Africa 10 Non-Christian Calendars 11 Can't find "Mothers Day" in Iran, But found this: 12 Would love to see some criticisms 13 Proposed move 14 Wilson 15 Is this vandalism? 16 Broken links (notes) 17 Relation to Gynaikratia? 18 Government recognition 19 When is Mother's day? 20 Merge/History 21 Influenced by Anna Marie Jarvis? 22 Mother's Day is the Second Sunday in May in the USA 23 Mother's Day in Bulgaria 24 Date 25 Spain 26 Step Mother's Day? 27 Apostrophe 28 translation of la fête des mères 29 removed all foreign names 30 customary to plant tomatoes? 31 Google trends results are irrelevant? 32 Someone please tell me what 33 A polite request 34 Mother's Day in Japan 35 Two objections relating to "the West" and "Women's Day" 36 United States? 37 Mother's Day or Mothers Day? 38 The May, 2008 congressional votes, last paragraph, Mother's Day#United States

[edit] New Addition

Would be great to have this article in here - http://www.mothersdaycentral.com/about-mothersday/history/. It is one of the best histories i have found to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.170.124 (talk) 21:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mary Worship?

What is this portion on "Roman Catholic Mary worship" doing in this article? Roman Catholics have never worshiped Mary, but even if this pointed 'debate' were to be had it certainly has no place in this article. Except that Mary was known as "The Mother of Jesus" and so is recognized on Mother's day..
MMMM... I might not get your point but I would disagree. Yes, the roman catholics are celebrating the Virgin Mary (in particular on August 15th). Are you arguing on the word WORSHIP ? 96.225.214.42 (talk) 15:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Though Roman Catholics technically venerate rather than worship Mary, murals and statues in both Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches suggest she is a goddess, the Queen of Heaven of many pre-Christian cults and religions. May, I believe, is the month of Mary for Roman Catholics. Ladybugs, which appear around May, also refer to Mary, as their name in German (Marienkäfer) suggests.75.33.186.10 (talk) 13:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] International info needed

The article could use more info on non-USA recogntion and celebration of Mother's Day. -- Infrogmation 20:38 May 10, 2003 (UTC)

Agreed. Can some non-US contributors add some things? -- Zoe

Actually, like to see some more relevant USA/commercialisation info about this date, as these aspects are most likely why the article exists and is read. Missing is reference to Anna Jarvis; her efforts to commemorate the anniversary of her mothers death as a day of national recognition for mothers. And subsequently her regrets upon seeing the overt commercialisation that evolved a score of years after her success of doing so. --oom ...................... If Mother's Day falls on a sunday, how can it be a holiday?

Mother's Day exists in other countries than those addressed in the article. For instance in Italy and France and date may differ : May 11 in Italy and May 25 in France this year. Ericd 10:46 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

The list of dates at the end of the article is very interesting and useful but it seems odd that the UK's mother's day is singled out as being unconnected to the US mother's day. Does this mean that the others are all in some way connected? It seems unlikely but I know little about their origins. --Kazuhiko

doing a quick check before tomorrow (the first Sunday in May), it turns out that, this year at least, South Africa is holding Mother's Day on the second Sunday rather than the first as indicated -- what sources do we have for non-US dates? Kwill 17:41, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Usually the sources are contributions from Wikipedians from those countries. I live in Poland, so I inserted Mother's Day date in Poland. I believe others did similarly. Przepla 19:02, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

I have heard from numerous sources that the number one day for suicides by mothers is on mothers day. Anyone have any sources for this? (if this turns out to be true, we need to go find a mother who has a child that does not call and give her a hug!)

"Baking a cake is one way to show a mother how much you appreciate her." Disputed... Agreed? --Domthedude001 21:06, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

It is "one way to show a mother how much you appreciate her." Therefore, I think the tag should be removed. I dont think however that the cake is the best way to illustrate Mothers Day. -Reuvenk_[T][C] 22:14, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, yes, a cake is "one way." So is taking your mom to a NASCAR event. So what? Commercially, I've read (somewhere) that the No. 1 way of "celebrating" is to buy chocolate. --Michael K. Smith 13:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

(This is my first entry. Please let me know if I am doing anything incorrectly.) All of the above suggestions are GREAT IDEAS! May I offer some additional suggestions? As some mothers are "high maintenace" and some are low maintenance, how about finding out what each unique mother would like, either by observation or (gasp)asking her what means the most to her?

In my limited 70 years of experience, most mothers I know would simply like to know they did somethings right and that their children appreciated the efforts. No matter what the gift, a sincere thank you means the most.LegacyCreator (talk) 20:09, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mother's Day vs Mothers' day

Why do we have two articles on the same thing? ---FoodMarket ^talk! 19:22, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We don't, they redirect. However, the main page should not be "mother's day" it should be "mothers' day" or just "mothers day". "Mother's Day" implies there is just one mother out there, and the day is just for her!

I agree; "Mother's Day" should redirect to "Mothers' Day" and not the other way around. 195.248.125.91 14:23, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I also agree, but I don't know how to actually make the change. To be fair, though, I don't believe I've seen anyone write mothers' day, even if that is technically correct. Maybe this is a case where the incorrect spelling is the popularly accepted one, and therefore (by the magic of descriptive rather than prescriptive language rules), maybe Mother's Day is the right way to spell it. --128.151.253.249 12:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, in Portugal the day is called "Dia da Mãe", singular. Minor detail, maybe.--portugal 23:07, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

But doesn't the Portugese translate to "Day of the Mother," referencing all mothers, rather than "Day of a Mother," referencing just one? I agree that Mothers' Day is probably correct, but that Mother's Day may be what we need to accept as common use. Same problem as Programmer's Day v. Programmers' Day, Father's Day v. Fathers' Day or Fathers Day. -- Lisasmall 16:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I would think that Mothers' Day, rather than Mother's Day, is more logical, and also the more commonly used, at least in Australia, where I live. Alpheus 07:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that there is any argument that both "Mothers' Day" and "Fathers' Day" are the only correct uses. They are regularly used in respectable publications and follow grammatical logic. Additionally, consider "Children's Day" briefly mentioned in this article - if the preferred form were "Mother's Day" it should be "Child's Day" which is patently absurd. Unless someone can provide a single convincing piece of evidence, it is clear that the main articles should be at "Mothers' Day" and "Fathers' Day" with "Mother's Day" and "Father's Day" redirecting. Turkeyphan^t 13:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

There are arguments, and there is evidence that "Mother's Day" is correct. A personal argument: I have only one mother, and as far as I am concerned, Mother's Day is her day.

More objective arguments are given below in the discussion about the proposed move. Several dictionaries only know "Mother's Day". Whether this is logical or not can be (with sources) discussed in the article, but the title should follow the "usual" use of the phrase in the English language. When there are several possible "usual" uses, I think it is bad manners to rename the article to change from one correct name to another.

--Austrian 13:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

What if one of the "usual" uses has more reasons to suggest it is correct? Turkeyphan^t 00:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

First, we do not count reasons here. If anything, we weigh them.

Second: it is not about "what is correct", but rather "is the current version incorrect?". According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), we (generally) do not change British to American spelling, nor conversely. I think a similar policy should apply here.

Third: I do not know whether "Mother's" or "Mothers'" is more common overall (See WP:COMMONNAME). But on wikipedia, there are only a handful of pages that link to Mothers' Day, whereas links to Mother's Day are much more common. --Austrian 20:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Women's Day vs International Women's Day

Likewise, is it necessary to have two links to the same article? These two links do just that.

Rhesusman 7:22, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

happy mothers day to every mother out there :-D luv ya's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.254.71.143 (talk) 09:29, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

In Vietnam, March 8th is called International Women Day, not Mother Day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.254.165.15 (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inga Sander??

What's the random link to Inga Sander under March 8th about? I can't find any resources as to what this is... and its certainly not a country. Thoughts? Insomniacity 21:23, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't know when it went away, but the Sander link is no longer present. -- Lisasmall 16:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Children's Day?

How come parents get holidays in the USA but children don't? It would be great if there was a day where kids--and only kids--get gifts! There is such a day in other countries, but Mother's Day and Father's Day exist in the USA. Children's Day, however, .

November 14, Birthday of Jawaharlal Nehru, is observed as Children's day in India. FLaRN2005 16:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Christmas/Easter/Birthdays where children get lavished with gifts compared to their parents. 84.70.117.5 06:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

and most of the rest of the year —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 16:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

yes i agree there should be a kids day good'on'ya dude —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.254.71.143 (talk) 09:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mother's Day in South Africa

April is known as the holiday month in South Africa because we have so much to celebrate, then we have May Day and Mothers Day is on the second Sunday because we have so many other days to.., is it too.., or tutu? Gregorydavid 07:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Christian Calendars

I'm presuming we're listing dates according to the relevant calendar (See Israel). Is anyone able to track down data on the Muslim calendar for the entry on Mother's Day in Iran?samwaltz 11:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can't find "Mothers Day" in Iran, But found this:

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/145/story_14548_1.html Can Muslims Celebrate Mother's Day? I found this article on Islamics' view of the US version of Mothers Day. Maybe it is helpful. I cannot find a single reference for the day in Iran or on the Muslim calendar. I suspect they feel the same about a day for women as they do about women?
I would like to know more. The reference is found here for the entire search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslim+Mother%27s+Day&btnG=Search cpswarrior 16:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Putting your obvious dislike for Islam aside, there is a Mother's Day in Iran. I don't know the date but my father sends his mother a card each year for Mother's Day. And on that note, though Iran is an Islamic Republic it does not follow the lunar calendar. It follows the solar calendar and it's year is 365 days long. Heymon32 19:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Would love to see some criticisms

I don't think I'm the only one in the world who finds all these Hallmark holidays to be a little mawkish. I'd love to see the addition of a section critiquing the institution of Mother's Day -- I'd add it myself but I know it'd be way too POV. :)

How about this as an Anti-Mothers-Day Hallmark Card. "She brought you into this world ... but try not to hold it against her!" :))

- I don't know if there are any criticims worthy of publication, but it is interesting to note that in the past few years there have been more and more emotionally neutral Mother's day cards being produced. While they are not like "She brought you into this world ... but try not to hold it against her!" (which is very funny) they are also not too smarmy "your are the most important person in my life" either. I think it is great to give the consumers a choice in the emotional level of Mother's day cards. Not every one has the same relationship with their mother. Yodar Critch (talk) 14:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed move

[edit] Wilson

Could whoever wrote "In 1914 President Woodrow Wilson declared the first national Mother's Day, as a day for American citizens to show the flag in honour of those mothers whose sons had died in war (with specific reference to The Great War, now known as World War I)" please clarify? The Great War (WW I) started in Europe in July 1914 and the US did not get involved until 1917, so if Wilson declared this holiday in May of 1914, this does not compute. Or at least, not the part about "specific reference to The Great War." -- TIA.70.56.20.39 15:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This was changed, obviously, some time ago. I just wanted to provide a reference for the 1914 date from the LoC : http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/may09.html Philhower (talk) 01:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is this vandalism?

Hi. I took notice that Mother's day in Russia is stated here as the last Sunday in June, whereas in Japanese Wikipedia it is explained as the last Sunday in November. In older version, this article on English Wikipedia does say that it is the last November Sunday.

I tracked the edit where the change occurred [1].

Now I see that this IP anon, which made only this edit, made a lot of changes. Could this IP be vandalizing the edit?

I have little clue, but if you see Thailand's Mother's day, it is explained as the birthday of Sirikit, which is Aug 12, according to the Wikipedia article on her. Why is this IP changing the Mother's day from Aug 12 to Feb 12, then?

Similarly, Korean Parent's Day is May 8, but the IP changed it to May 5.

I thought I would note this in case some others can volunteer to further check the accuracies of the changes made in this edit.

Tomos 13:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broken links (notes)

The notes don't appear to link to anywhere. --Bilge [TC] 00:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relation to Gynaikratia?

The article makes a mention-in-passing to the ancient Greek celebrations of Cybele, and Gaia; and their analogies to the modern "Mother's Day" holiday.

I'm curious, however, as to a possible relation with the modern Greek holiday of Gynaikratia, where womanhood in general is exalted and appreciated, (and not motherhood per se).

Is there anybody familiar enough with Gynaikratia to support (or discredit) a connection to Mother's Day? Pine 21:09, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Government recognition

I would like to see a mention of government recognition added to the article. In most locations, I believe MD is simply a folk-holiday without administrative recognition. Is MD recognised by the US government? Various state governments? By other national governments? Or is it simply celebrated commercially/traditionally? samwaltz 18:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

No, Mother's Day is not an "official" holiday in the U.S. Here there are Federal holidays (Christmas, July 4th, etc), when your mail doesn't get delivered, government offices are closed at all levels, and practically everyone is off from school & work, nationwide. And then there are state holidays, which, naturally, vary from state to state (Texas Independence Day in Texas, Mardi Gras here in Louisiana, etc), and for which local government offices are closed, and which are also days off from school & work. And then there are loads of what you call "folk holidays" (good coinage), like Halloween and Mother's Day, which are widely celebrated according to various customs but which are not in any way "official." I don't believe Mother's Day is presently an official holiday in any of the states -- except that it's observed on a Sunday, so most businesses and schools and offices are already closed. --Michael K. Smith 14:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

It is official in this sense: in 1914 Congress passed a law, which WIlson signed on May 8, 1914, "designating the second Sunday in May as Mother's Day," and authorizing and requesting that Wilson issue a proclamation "calling upon the government officials to display the United States flag on all buildings, and the people of the United States to display the flag at their homes or other suitable places on the second Sunday in May as a public expression of our love and reverence for the mothers of our country." ^[1]

So, if you see any government building without a flag on Mother's Day, they're breaking the law. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

1. ^ Rice, Susan Tracey and Robert Haven Schauffler (1915), Mother's Day: Its History, Origin, Celebration, Spirit, and Significance as Related in Prose and Verse. New York: Moffat, Yard and Company. Anna Jarvis and Philadelphia, p. 6; Mother's Day bill in Congress, pp. 4-5

[edit] When is Mother's day?

I think the actual date for Mother's day should be mentioned at the beginning of the article. Brian Pearson 16:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• The problem with mentioning the 'actual date' is that it changes year to year and some countries havefixed dates, some don't. --Tikuko 12:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Somebody could just change it from year to year. Or at least put this year's mother's day next to the US entry in the 'Mother's Days in various parts of the world' table
• I do not think it would make sense to list all the possible dates for the current year at the beginning. Adding the current date in the table is more reasonable. But "second Sunday in May" is very easy to look up in any calendar; wikipedia is not a calendar.--Austrian 20:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge/History

This article was originally "Mother's Day". There has been some discussion about moving it to "Mothers' Day" in April/May 2006, and March/May 2007. A proposed move in July 2006 failed.

Austrian 11:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing to merge. Mothers' Day was an unnecessary fork that was causing confusion, so I redirected it back to Mother's Day and fixed the double redirects that caused. WP:COMMONNAMES dictates that we use the most common punctuation, even if some people find it incorrect. Powers ^T 15:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Err, umm, actually the vast majority of the edit history appears to be at Mothers' Day. Not sure exactly how that came to pass, but the edit history really should be merged. older ≠ wiser 03:07, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is what happened:

1. May 6, 13:55: User:Alain Vey moves "Mother's Day" to "Mothers' Day", with summary "correct grammar as per talk and wiki specs", leaving a "redirect" behind, and taking the history to "Mothers' Day". "Mother's Day" starts a new history.
2. May 6, 17:29: User:85.102.195.199 (apparently) uses cut-and-paste to replace the "redirect" by a copy of the article. No edit summary.
3. May 6 - May 9: Wikipedians edit both articles.
4. May 9, 15:00: User:LtPowers replaces content of "Mothers' Day" by a redirect to "Mother's Day", citing "WP:COMMONNAME".

--Austrian 21:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influenced by Anna Marie Jarvis?

I've been trying to unscramble the relationship between Howe's "Mother's Day for Peace" and Anna Jarvis' "Mother's Day."

Although the mother of Anna Jarvis, Anna Reeves Jarvis, did organize Mothers' Day Work Clubs to improve health and sanitation in her region, and although they assisted both Union and Confederate encampments in combatting typhoid fever and later help reconcile families split by the war, I haven't seen anything about her having influenced Julia Ward Howe. Is there a source for this?

I'm beginning to think that there's a sort of emerging myth to the effect that "Mother's Day was founded by Howe as an antiwar, almost feminist event, which was gradually co-opted by the forces of sentimentality," whereas my impression is that Howe's and Anna Jarvis' efforts were really quite separate; Howe founded a "Mother's Day for Peace," it died out, and then forty years later Anna Jarvis found a completely different "Mother's Day."Dpbsmith (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mother's Day is the Second Sunday in May in the USA

For those of you who foolishly thought you might learn that simple fact from the article. Don't forget to call your mom. DonPMitchell 18:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If you cannot determine what day Mother's Day is on by reading the article's gigantic table showing what day Mother's Day is on, then indeed you are foolish. :-) --Miken2005 21:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mother's Day in Bulgaria

Does someone happen to know why Bulgaria was put down under the United States date (second Sunday of May) in addition to what I thought mother's day was (8 March)? Eeyore22 02:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date

I put down Australia to begin with! Auroranorth 11:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spain

Why is Spain twice? In the Spanish version of this page it is in May, not December. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.251.165 (talk) 17:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The correct day on Spain is first sunday of May, I deleted the december entry. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I am glad I was right.--208.102.210.163 (talk) 00:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Step Mother's Day?

We have Mother's Day, Grandparent's Day, and there's even supposed to be a Mother-In-Law's Day (somewhere near Halloween to tie in with all the stereotypical MIL jokes, I suppose); however, is there a Step Mother's Day in the USA?LegacyCreator (talk) 20:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Apostrophe

Now surely, SURELY, it should be Mothers' Day, as in the day belonging to all mothers rather than just one? U-Mos (talk) 20:22, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It's explained on this very same page why it's not like that, under the "Mother's Day vs Mothers' day" heading. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] translation of la fête des mères

The correct translation is "feast/party (dutch: feest) of mothers", not day of mothers. Then it would be "jour des mères"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.190.253.144 (talk) 16:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] removed all foreign names

I removed the names on different languages[2] because it fails WP:V verifiability policy which is one of the core policies of wikipedia. I saw this change to the malay name[3] and realized that this section has no sources at all and it's imposible for editors to verify that it's no simply some vandal changing the name "I eat fartings". I already had to ask an irish editor to correct a change to the irish name after another change by an anomymous editor. It's a pity, but we can't have unverifiable information on articles. Feel free to WP:RS reliable find some page listing the names on different languages and making a new list puting that page as a reference. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] customary to plant tomatoes?

In the United States sub-section, there is a random sentence at the end of the first paragraph. "In parts of the United States it is customary to plant tomatoes outdoors after Mother's Day (and not before)." Would someone please review this; to remove possible vandalism or move it to a more appropriate paragraph? ~ Agvulpine (talk) 07:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Poking around for references to planting tomatoes (a custom I'm entirely unfamiliar with) I have found one article which supports the claim [4]. It is a recent article, however (written after the tomato claim was introduced), and it might be using this entry as its source. - Stefanwulf (talk) 18:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Google trends results are irrelevant?

What's the point in this block of text? It seems to be using it to deduce which date is most common which would imply that Google is used universally, which is patently untrue.

Mother's Day is celebrated on different days throughout the world. Examining the trends in Google searches for the term "mother's day" shows two major blips, the smaller one on the fourth Sunday in Lent (it is also called ladies day and women's day), and the larger one on the second Sunday in May.

I propose that this block of text is removed, since it is either misleading (Google only used widely in some countries) or literally pointless.
Davidmaxwaterman (talk) 00:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Someone please tell me what

"...this text..."

is doing here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.218.208.49 (talk) 18:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A polite request

THIS IS THE MOST FUCKING WORTHLESS ARTICLE ON ALL OF WIKIPEDIA. THE ONLY THING I WANT TO KNOW IS WHEN THE FUCK MOTHER'S DAY IS. WHY IS THIS FUCKING ARTICLE FUCKING LOCKED, ASSHOLES?! WHEN IS MOTHER'S DAY? WHEN IS MOTHER'S DAY? WHAT FUCKING GOOD IS THIS STUPID FUCKING WEBSITE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.147.174 (talk • contribs)

If you read the article, it will tell you when Mother's Day is. As you appear to be from the United States, the article clearly states (in the first sentence of the article) that "The United States celebrates Mother's Day on the second Sunday in May". And then, in the "Mother's Day in various parts of the world" section, it even more clearly states that for the United States, it is the "Second Sunday in May - (11 May in 2008)". So, while we appreciate your enthusiasm, not all of our articles speak aloud to the user, and expect the smallest amount of reading to gleam information. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 19:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Man, you're too nice to this asshat. Here, I'll do that for you: Go screw yourself, you illiterate monkey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.42 (talk) 23:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I think he wanted to know the date. That's what I was looking for. What I discovered is that, like Thanksgiving, there is no fixed date. Perhaps this is why so many people forget Mother's Day.--Jpwrunyan (talk) 02:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mother's Day in Japan

The article throws out the statement that "in Japan, Mother's Day is a heavily marketed concept"--which, frankly, it's not. Valentine's Day is heavily marketed and there is ample citable evidence. Christmas is also heavily marketed and there is ample citable evidence. So please remove this statement or add a citation. As it stands, I think it is reckless at best, and flagrantly stereotyping Japanese culture at worst.--Jpwrunyan (talk) 02:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two objections relating to "the West" and "Women's Day"

1) DROP THE WEST:

"In most countries, Mother's Day is a new concept copied from western civilization. In many African countries..."

Western civilization?! Do you really need this elephant of an abstraction, and the supremacist ideology it implies? If this is even true, how about derived (not "copied") "from the holiday as marketed in the United States and Britain."

Shortly thereafter:

"Today many Greeks are beginning to observe Mother's Day as rendered by the West."

First of all, as a Greek, I cry unsourced bullshit. Even more alarming is the assumption that Greece is not part of "the West" (and thus probably not even civilized).

How can "the West" not include the country where, by its own mythology, it was invented?

What is "the West"? "America, Fuck Yeah!"?

In short, no reason to clutter up an article about a specific observance with an entirely irrelevant, vastly freighted and dubious ideological construct.

2) MOTHERS ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO WOMEN

Mother's Day and the Women's Days as celebrated in various parts of the world cannot simply be equated, they are completely different concepts (with different origins). I can only conclude this article was written by someone unable to make a very basic distinction. Mothers, women, wot's the diff?

I agree with the last point. Why do we have separate dates listed for both Mother's day and Women's day? Alright, in the absence of a mother's day in a given country you may celebrate your mother on March 8 by default. But you will also celebrate your grandmothers, your sister and female coworkers. So this is at best gray area. But what about countries where both Mother's day and Women's day is celebrated such as Russia and Mongolia, why would we list those countries twice if a Mother's day proper exists?

Also, in reference to Mongolia, a statement exists such as "Mongolia is the only country which celebrates Mother's day twice". Mongolia is only listed once in the table for Mother's day. The second reference is for Women's day. So how is this statement true? Especially given that Russia is exactly in the same situation.

Also, in United States section the holiday is misspelled as "Mothers Day". Article is not editable at present 209.195.102.225 (talk) 22:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I've made the fix you mention. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 03:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I think we still have an unresolved reference to "Mongolia is the only country which celebrates Mother's day twice" What is this based on? Mongolia is listed in the table once for Mother's day and once for Women's day, same as plenty of other countries. What is meant by this statement? 209.195.102.225 (talk) 16:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] United States?

I'm pretty sure Mother's Day in the U.S. is exactly the same as it is here in Canada. I believe the United States section should be reworded to include Canada and possible other English speaking countries who experience the exact same holiday on the same day. I'd recommend saying "North America" instead, but it looks like Mexico's Mother's Day is different. Best bet would probably be to add a paragraph stating that other countries such as ___ have adopted the same day etc. etc. -- Tkgd2007 (talk) 01:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mother's Day or Mothers Day?

Is it really "Mother's Day" as in a singular possessive? (Like my own Mother's Day) or as a holiday is it plural as in "Mothers Day" as in a day for (all) mothers? I think this hasn't been properly addressed 65.102.40.110 (talk) 01:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it has been addressed a lot of times, see Talk:Mother's_Day#Mother.27s_Day_vs_Mothers.27_day on this same page. The correct spelling is "Mother's Day" --Enric Naval (talk) 03:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The correct title of this article, and of every mention of the holiday should be "Mothers' Day" rather than "Mother's Day". It's a celebration of "mothers" not of "mother." The discussion referenced seems to indicate that the correct spelling IS "Mothers' Day" and yet the article remains unchanged. Does anyone have a valid reason why it should be a singular possessive? The reasoning for what other WP articles link to is irrelevant, as they would link to the article as it was titled when the link was added; if it were incorrectly titled, it would be incorrectly linked. --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 20:15, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

As the discussion indicates, most dictionaries recognize only Mother's Day spelling, like Webster does [5], and Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English 2008 [6] so that's the common usage in english, so that's the spelling that we should use on wikipedia. Hell, even Urban Dictionary only has an entry for this spelling [7].

Father's Day is based on Mother's Day, so it should have the same spelling. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, every source on the article except the BBC one uses that spelling, including the one about the creation of the holiday, and the one about about the US Congress voting on the holiday. A search on BBC's site[8] reveals that Mother's Day is also the preferred (lol, spelling) prefered spelling on BBC. I didn't count the Google Trends source because it chokes on any apostrophe that you use on your search, so I suppose that it treats both spellings as the same word --Enric Naval (talk) 00:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

And the proclamations of George W. Bush on 2004[9] and 2001[10], and check the spelling on all these history books and newspapers [11]. Also, the Library of Congress page [12]. Notice that the original the 1870's proclamation does not have the holiday's name on it [13] (clic on the image to read it). I assume that Woodrow Wilson's proclamation used that spelling. Adenda: from the library of congress website mentioned, on 1905 by Anna Jarvis was trying to get stablished a "Memorial Mothers Day" (sic).

So, sorry, but I'll have to revert to the "Mother's Day" spelling, and do the same on the "Father's Day" article, since it seems that this is the preferred spelling in english. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, perhaps consensus dictates this change, but let's be clear on the reasons why - it's an error either way, and there's a difference between a commonly-made spelling error and "preferred spelling." You've provided a large number of resources, so I can see how this argument can move toward erring on the side of common usage, but it's clearly an error, even if a common one. We have examples of similarly plural holidays in "Presidents Day" (or Presidents' Day), "Veterans Day" (or Veterans' Day), and "Grandparents Day" (these three are celebrations of multiple Presidents, multiple Veterans, and all Grandparents, respectively); while we have appropriately singular examples such as New Year's Day (it celebrates a single year) and Valentine's Day (in honor of St. Valentine, a single individual). --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 02:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

(sorry for making my posts so long) There are other holidays that have different prefered spellings, see the articles at Category:Holidays_in_the_Soviet_Union. Altought there seems to be a general standard, you can see exceptions like International_Women's_Day, which appears to be inspired on Mother's Day and seems to have inherited its english spelling (no idea on whether the russian original name is singular or plural).

Also notice the incoherences on translations across different countries. If you click on the languages list on the left: in spanish and catalan it's singular, in french and portuguese it's plural, in german de:Muttertag appears to be singular (after looking at the "mutter" entry on german wikitionary, the plural uses an umlaut: Mütter), dunno about other languages. I stroked my "preferred" above.

One note, it's not consensus that dictates this, it's reliable sources. At most, you could talk of a consensus on how to interpret the sources :) There is also a Manual of Style page that deals with spellings, and that page is actually backed by raw consensus, but even then it is still backed with reliable sources to verify that the practices described are actually correct. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

That's really interesting about the other languages - fascinating that it's inconsistent there too. "International Women's Day" is plural - if it weren't it would be "International Woman's Day." This is yet another example that proves that "Mother's Day" is a spelling/punctuation error. Speaking of spelling errors, you were right the first time, it's "preferred." Anyway, reliable sources that show it spelled this way can only demonstrate that it's a common error, and probably one that's common enough to dictate common usage, and thus the spelling used in this article. But I maintain that it's an error regardless. --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 16:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the spelling is probably erroneous. Woodrow's proclamation must have made that spelling official, and it has been kept that way since then. If go to HTTP referer and search for the word "spelling", you will see a very similar example of a mispelling becoming the correct spelling of a specific thing because someone wrote it incorrectly on an important official paper. (oh, you are right, "women" is plural, I hadn't noticed that detail) --Enric Naval (talk) 18:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

That could explain it, yes. We all know how important correct grammar is in the U.S. Presidency ;) So, Wikipedia guidelines mean that the article has to reflect the common spelling, whether it's in error or not? In other words, there's nothing that can be done here to "force" the correct spelling based on rules of language, when a common error prevails among the sources? --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 18:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

You need to find a good, verifiable source that discusses the matter. If Safire had written a column in the New York Times arguing for the correct placement of the apostrophe, or if an association of English teachers had petitioned the President to issue a decree requiring the correct placement, or something like that, you could summarize and cite that source in the article, and it would be a valuable addition. But, yes, just like dictionaries of American English, WIkipedia entries, in principle, are based on common usage, not "correctness." It's not very important because of the redirect mechanism. If Mothers' Day and Mothers Day don't already redirect to Mother's Day, they soon will. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Mothers Day exists since 2002, but Mothers' Day was only created a few days ago, when a similar discussion happened --Enric Naval (talk) 23:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The May, 2008 congressional votes, last paragraph, Mother's Day#United States

Someone deleted this as "political nonsense." I'm reinserting it (but not mentioning the party name in the main text, curious readers can easily find it in the footnote. I think it's intensely amusing, and would be whichever party did it... and is relevant to the article because it shows the U. S. cultural important of Mother's Day and "motherhood." If Congress had had a similar vote about apple pie I'd certainly want it to be in the Apple Pie article, and if Congress had ever taken a vote about the value of Pi I'd--oh, wait, they did. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think the fact that you find it amusing is enough of a reason for it to be included in this encyclopedic article. --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

That's not the rationale I gave for including it. I think that an official Congressional action regarding Mother's Day is relevant in a section describing the history of Mother's Day in the United States, and this one is verifiable and properly referenced.

It happens to be true that I find it amusing, but that's neither a good reason for including it nor for deleting it.

Similarly, the fact that you consider it to be "political nonsense" is neither a good reason for including it nor for deleting it. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Touché. :) --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 20:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

P. S. A case could be made for there being a certain amount of Congressional ambivalence about Mother's Day. Congress has not always treated it as a matter of great moment. In 1908 when the resolution instituting it came up, one senator objected that it would lead to days in honor of "the sisters and the cousins and the aunts," and another proposed substituting the Fifth Commandment. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the revision here is much more reasonable. It struck me as political posturing to name parties. Clearly, there could be perfectly legitimate political reasons for deciding against officially recognizing a holiday, regardless of its subject. But I don't see why it's relevant that this resolution was presented and yet did not pass. Shouldn't such details be restricted to things that actually happened, not just things that "almost" happened, or were simply talked about in Congress? --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 20:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

It passed successfully *both* votations. Not only that, but Republicans probably knew that the resolution would pass the second time, but asked for a revote anyways --Enric Naval (talk) 23:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok then, I must have missed that, sorry. But surely, if this is merely informational, and not an attempt at politicizing the issue, a more neutral reference can be found than one titled "Republicans Vote Against Moms; No Word Yet on Puppies, Kittens" ?? --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 06:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)