Talk:Mortaritaville

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the quality scale.
This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.

WikiProject Military history or the Military history Portal may be able to help recruit one.

If a more appropriate WikiProject or portal exists, please adjust this template accordingly.(May 2007)
Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (May 2007)

[edit] The REAL 'Mortaritaville'

Recently, this article has been sinking into a minor edit war regarding the use of the term Mortaritaville. The argument seemingly revolves around the opinion that the unofficial term doesn't apply to LSA Anaconda. As an active party in the argument, I decided to begin discussions and state my opinion here...

It doesn't matter where the real Mortaritaville is supposed to be located... Balad AB is known as Mortaritaville colloquially, meaning informally and not officially. The name Mortaritaville may apply to various bases, depending only on the inhabitants (not official documents). As such, stop deleting the colloquial references from the main page under the justification of being inaccurate. This page is about Balad Air Base, aka LSA Anaconda, and not about where the "real" Mortaritaville is located. The term is cited properly from a dependable source and is useful in illustrating the type of culture that has evolved on the base. -- VegitaU 04:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the user VegitaU, it irrelavent where the real Mortaritaville is located, the Balad AB/LSA Anaconda is known as Mortaritaville, I personally do not know when this was coined by the servicemembers and contractors who were living on the base but I do know that Log Base Seitz was known as Mortaritaville in 2003 - 2004 during Operation Iraqi Freedom I and when the base was initially established next to Baghdad International Airport (BIAP) to the West of Baghdad, this name was coined due to the high frequency of rockets and mortars landing inside and around the compound from personal knowledge and experience (having been there). I personally do not know if this is still the case today in 2007 although as I understand, it is. There are plenty of sources online that also comment about Log Base Seitz as Mortaritaville:
The Anaconda gift shops had lots of Mortaritaville gear for sale when I visited there in 2005. However, I passed on it. If I make it sound like a tourist destination, that is because Anaconda was used as an R&R destination for the 102nd Field Artillery while deployed to FOB Spartan. I just thought I would add the interesting side note to the discussion. --JAYMEDINC 11:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
As you said above, the shops on base sold all sorts of paraphernalia at least as of last year while I did my tour. There were colorful coins, hats, and shirts all proclaiming Balad AB as Mortaritaville. -- VegitaU 23:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I was going to abandon this conversation, but for some reason I decided to do a google search on Mortaritaville. So much stuff came up about Anaconda and I didn't see one thing about Seitz. What was most interesting to me was to see the song parody that got some airplay. I had to make some edits in Margaritaville to reflect this. I left room for improvement if you guys want to put the time in it. I'd respectfully like to bow out of this now. --JAYMEDINC 00:04, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Your innaccurate sources are not justification for the inclusion of the name "Mortaritaville". That name originated on Log Base Seitz, therefore, that is to which post it belongs. I was on that post from 2004-05, and I know for fact that the name originated there. The phrase "Welcome to Mortaritaville" was included on all signage for Log Base Seitz during 2003. Also, cheap trinkets with a stolen name do not qualify as acceptable sources.RFP15 00:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright, let's address this wholly:
  1. First, GlobalSecurity.org, the source we've used to cite the information, is an acclaimed source that is easily considered verifiable and relevant.
  2. Second, wherever the name came from doesn't matter. This article is not about "Mortaritaville". It's about LSA Anaconda that is referred to as Mortaritaville colloquially by the people stationed there. There aren't any official documents that refer to LSA Anaconda as Mortaritaville. Any place can be colloquially referred to as anything; it's only dependent on the inhabitants. And as many have addressed above, the name "Mortaritaville" has been so widespread through merchandise and such, that it has become a notable piece of military culture.
  3. Third, no one "stole" anything. The article already notes, albeit unreferenced, that FOB Seitz probably originated the name. If you feel so passionately about the issue, you should create an article on FOB Seitz and call it the "original Mortaritaville" (hopefully referenced).
-- VegitaU 02:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Just because a source is "verifiable" does not mean that the information is accurate. It does indeed matter where this term originated because most soldiers at LSA Anaconda like to claim that it is indigineous to that post when that belief has absolutely no truth to it. Your argument saying that this article is about "Mortaritaville" is at best suspect and at worst irrelevant. No one here discussing this issue has claimed that it is. Anything can be stolen, whether it is physical or intellectual property. To claim that no one has stolen anything in the tense that you use it is completely incorrect. Two people does not count as many, however, it does indeed prove theft of an idea, and using that theft to make a profit. Anaconda is Club Med compared to Log Base Seitz, and using a name that represents a harsh environment to describe one that is not is laughable.RFP15 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I personally have never been to LSA Anaconda/Balad AB, although I do know for a fact that they have received a high frequency of incoming in the past, hence it was also coined Mortaritaville. If you would like to come to a compromise and resolve this issue in an adult manner--I would recommend that someone mentions that Log Base Seitz is also known as Mortaritaville and this was coined in 2003 during OIF I, and everybody walks with with that warm and fuzzy feeling. Again, I do not know exactly when this was coined by the personnel who were stationed at Anaconda/Balad, if someone has any credibile source that references this--that could also be added to the article. There could be a Wikipedia articled called Mortaritaville although I would suspect there would be a lot of discussion in reference to this name, orgins, etc. I will also note, for the user VegitaU, it is Log Base Seitz and not FOB Seitz. -Signaleer 07:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Let me reply to your arguments thus:
  • "Just because a source is "verifiable" does not mean that the information is accurate"...
This is taken from official Wikipedia policy: "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. The accuracy is derived from these "credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy, or are authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." Verifiability and accuracy here are inseparable. The source is credible and reliable. Just because you may disagree with its context, doesn't diminish its validity.
  • "It does indeed matter where this term originated because most soldiers at LSA Anaconda like to claim that it is indigineous to that post when that belief has absolutely no truth to it."
Nowhere in the text of the article is the claim made that LSA Anaconda is the one-and-only true Mortaritaville. In fact, the article states that: "Although the soldiers stationed at LSA Anaconda like to claim the nickname "Mortaritaville", this term was originally the nickname of another post in Iraq, Logistics Base Seitz[citation needed]. Mortaritaville probably did come from Seitz. The article says so and no one has tried to claim exclusive ownership of the term. User:RFP15 says above: "No one here discussing this issue has claimed that [the article is about Mortaritaville]." Then continues to say, "Your argument saying that this article is about "Mortaritaville" is at best suspect and at worst irrelevant." I, in fact, clearly state that: "Second, wherever the name came from doesn't matter. This article is not about "Mortaritaville". It's about LSA Anaconda that is referred to as Mortaritaville colloquially by the people stationed there."
  • "Anything can be stolen, whether it is physical or intellectual property. To claim that no one has stolen anything in the tense that you use it is completely incorrect."
The notion that someone "stole" something means that someone or something else "owned" it. There are no laws in place that restrict the use of the word "Mortaritaville" to Log Base Seitz. The base never copyrighted the name, thus it is in the public domain and free for anyone to use. Furthermore, Log Base Seitz couldn't copyright the name anyway, being a work of the US Government. It's like saying the Department of Defense "owns" the metonymic phrase: "The Pentagon" and can sue any other place in America that calls itself "The Pentagon". As I've mentioned above, credit has already been given to Log Base Seitz for its origin.
  • "Two people does not count as many, however, it does indeed prove theft of an idea, and using that theft to make a profit. Anaconda is Club Med compared to Log Base Seitz, and using a name that represents a harsh environment to describe one that is not is laughable."
There are more than two people that refer to Balad AB as Mortaritaville. The name, being in the public domain as I've noted above, is open for anyone to profit from if they so choose. Just like any pharmaceutical company in America can use the word "asprin", as it is in the public domain now and not still claimed by Bayer. Secondly, your comparison of Anaconda to Club Med and the whether or not you consider it a "harsh environment" is your own opinion. Others may consider Anaconda to be harsh and Seitz a cakewalk and that would be their opinion and irrelevant to this article.
-- VegitaU 21:08, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

You still are unable to grasp my point of view, therefore, I feel that any other attempts to show what is accurate will be pointless. You offer no viable rebuttal to my main argument.RFP15 01:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Uh, ok... Issue resolved! :) -- VegitaU 23:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Your ineptitude =/= resolution. RFP15 08:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

C'mon. Put some valid points down that I can debate or don't write anything here. I wouldn't want to have to report this behavior. Oh, and don't blank earlier edits.
Have a nice day! :D -- VegitaU 05:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Definition of inept from Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:

inept - lacking in sense or reason: foolish.

My choosing to no longer debate you does not mean that I offered a resolution, therefore the word inept is used in a proper context. Therefore, I do not feel that it was a personal attack. However, your recent post was indeed a threat, therefore, it does violate the Wikipedia user policy. However, I am choosing not to report this behavior because I feel that it would be childish to do so, and I am above that. There are much more important things to worry about than empty threats from a faceless person in a discussion board.

RFP15 04:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Chill
Chill
Mortaritaville
still on the the article
Figuring these problems out
is all I really care about.
I'm going to cease
so... peace!
-- VegitaU 17:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)