Talk:Morrissey

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Archives

/Archive 1

Contents 1 WHAT?!?! 2 This is a fan page (and shouldn't be) 3 Sales 4 External Links 5 Feuds within the music industry 6 Born in Davyhulme, lived in Hulme and later on in Stretford 7 Morrissey's purported veganism 8 influence in popular culture 9 Socialist? 10 Stop changing the photo! 11 Vegetarians and Animals Rights SOLO music 12 Catholic? 13 Better picture 14 Henry Rollins criticism of Morrissey 15 Wilde 16 Tony Quote? 17 T.Rex at Belle Vue 18 Joyce royalties 19 NNDB used as a source 20 Sounds a lot like... 21 Racism 22 Places 23 Meat is Murder 24 Leather shoes 25 Vandalism 26 Morrissey as band

[edit] WHAT?!?!

"Morrissey is not engaged to Jonathan Violet, a famous tunesmith from northern England. "

Who the hell wrote that? Where's the source?

I think that this is clearly vandalism (Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] This is a fan page (and shouldn't be)

This is not an encyclopedia entry -- it's a page written by some devoted fans who want to portry Morrissey in the best possible light. This is inappropriate, and I think the page needs a significant rewrite; in particular, the "trivia" section should be mostly or completely removed. This is my opinion, but as Bill Hicks said, it happens to be true. R 07:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

'Morrissey has told that he enjoys watching boxing'

Quotes such as this from the trivia really do need to be removed, unless the comment can be contextualized into saying something about the man's character.

That said, I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as 'fan page'; what bits do you think are overly sycophantic? Robdurbar 09:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

• I disagree that Morrissey's character needs to be established to the degree that a page of this size seems to attempt. The sheer length of the page gives me pause, and the "Miscellaneous" (formerly "Trivia") section is chock-full of completely irrelevant -- and unattributed -- pablum. "Morrissey is noted for using and liking the Southam Street work of photographer Roger Mayne" has little, if any, importance to an encyclopedic entry on the man. That said, I am impressed with the page's comprehensiveness, but wonder how much of this content is really significant at all. R 16:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the trivia section is important in understanding Morrissey, his music and his fans an encyclopedia doesn't just have to offer dry facts surrounding someone's life, but can instead show a person's wealth of influences and personality, as well as

I believe Morrissey's cultural status and influence merits a very detailed page; there is a reason Wikipedia is superior as a resource, and it is not because it is a dry, concise 'overview' of its subjects. 84.69.105.133 (talk) 00:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sales

If You Are The Quarry is his most successful album, having sold "more than a million" copies (i.e. about a million plus), how can he have sold 80 million total?

Yeah, anyone have a source for this? - Maximusveritas 15:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I figured for sure it was a typo and changed it to 8 million, then someone just changed it back. There is absolutely no possible way Moz has sold 80 million worldwide, see the note by maximusveritus above.

I take it back. If you include every Smiths album, plus every Smiths single, plus Moz albums and singles and compilations and include worldwide sales for going on 25 years, 80 million is probably about right. A major label like Warners likes to see back catalog items sell at least a couple of hundred thousand per year, less than that and they disappear from the catalog. so at 100 k per year over the last 20 years, you could add another 2 million per album to the original 1.5 million certified albums, it's not inconceivable that The Smiths have sold anywhere from 10 to 20 million albums in the U.S. alone. Only the accountants at Warner know for sure.

• I was about to say that. Coldplay have made 25mill albums sales from 3 albums so 80mill for Moz doesn't suprise me. Englishrose 23:07, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Morrissey has DEFINITELY NOT sold 80 million albums worldwide. If you think otherwise, please produce a source. Please also do not confuse acclaim with sales; The Smiths may be one of the most influential English bands of the 80's, but they did not sell well outside the UK and Europe, at least not in a mainstream pop sense. If Morrissey had sold 80 million records, then no way would he have been without a record deal for 7 years. Even as of today, he is signed with the independent Sanctuary, whom are having major financial troubles and could be out of business this year. To put "80 million albums" in perspective, Nirvana IN TOTAL sold 50 million albums worldwide, just as an example. Morrissey definitely HAS NOT sold 80 million records.

Why should it be that surprising that Morrissey/The Smiths may have outsold Nirvana? The Smiths effectively had a 7 year headstart on Nirvana, and have would appear to have remained trendy (so that lots of people would buy up the back catalogue) for much longer. I've no idea which of Morrissey or Nirvana have sold more in, say, France or Argentina, but then probably nor does anyone else around here... --Danward 21:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Morrissey has never had a double platinum record (2 million units) solo or with the Smiths. You're trying to convince us he's sold 80 million records worldwide or even surpassed Nirvana? I would be surprised if he's sold 10 million records in his career, and that's a high estimate. People need to cite sources and not just speculate based on their emotions. We're an encylopedia, not a fanzine. Facts only, please.

Absolutely right. Please check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_music_artists - Morrissey or the Smiths are nowhere close to being on that list, not to mention not even being on the list for selling 50 million records. Whoever came up with this "80 million records" rubbish is clearly pulling the leg (and the tender guillable heartstrings of Morrissey fans) of Wikipedia users.

[edit] External Links

I've run through the "Fan sites" to verify that they still exist, and the ones that contained obvious copyright violations (bootleg downloads, scanned photos from magazines, etc) have been removed. Anything that was a fan blog was removed on vanity grounds, and a couple of the better looking sites with a lot of information (and a nice layout) were kept as representative of the fan community. See WP:EL#What_should_be_linked_to...

"In general, any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article here would have once it becomes an example of brilliant prose."

Xinit 00:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The Fan Sites that people are adding back are not useful for the context of this article. A site that features new photos that are copyright-infringing or a site that lists bootlegs for download, or a fanatic's blog about Morrissey, or a fan forum that has a small handful of posts; non of these add anything verifiable or useful to the article. I propose that They ALL be deleted, and will do so in 24 hours if there is no dispute.

I agree with your action. However, I think that the first three links should be restored, as they provide information that cannot be found elsewhere. Morrissey-solo is essentially an in-depth collection of recent news stories on Morrissey and worth linking to, while True To You is semi-official and Passions Just Like Mine has an excellent discography. The others should remain out though. Acegikmo1 22:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I very much agree. SaltyWater 21:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Notable sites re-added. Please bring to talk page before action is taken to remove them. SaltyWater 23:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are morrissey-solo, true-to-you and passionsjustlikemine out again without any reference here? I agree with Acegikmo and SaltyWater, these links are very useful. I would like to add them again, if there are no good reasons why they shouldn't be mentioned. --Zommer 10:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feuds within the music industry

The first sentence of the third paragraph reads: Morrissey have severely criticized fellow singers such as Madonna, David Bowie and George Michael.

This should either read "M. has severely..." or "M. has been severely..."

I don't know enough Morrissey trivia to know which.

Either way, there're no citations given for the severe criticism. Perhaps the sentence needs to go?

[edit] Born in Davyhulme, lived in Hulme and later on in Stretford

Morrissey was born in the Park Hospital in Davyhulme (Trafford) on 22 May 1959. He lived in Harper Street, Hulme (Manchester) till 1965 when his family moved to Queens Square on the border of Hulme near Moss side. Finally moved to King's Road 384, Stretford (Trafford) in 1969.

Mozzer99 17:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

OK - Check out this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onEFbTS002U In it Morrissey refers to the place he grew up in as both Old Trafford and Hulme. The person who deleted the previous entry about this doesn't want to have a proper discussion and would prefer legend to fact. The average Morrissey fan probably associates O/T with sport and almost wretches at the thought that 'the fey one' could have grown up in such an area. Why do you think he writes songs about the Munich Air Disaster? Go figure, fool! Also, ye pilgrimage makers, get an A-Z and and have a walk around O/T, not the sporting stadiums, the area itself - it actually includes a lot of the type of streets evoked by Morrissey in his lyrics and imagery. Hulme has nothing of the kind left but O/T and Moss Side do. So ner! Sucks to you! Ye re-writers of history!

[edit] Morrissey's purported veganism

Can anyone verify this?
A quick Google search for 'Morrissey' and 'vegan' brings up numerous articles where he is mentioned to be one, including articles from the The Times and The Indepedent. However, beside these few publications, I've never encountered any interview or article where he himself discusses veganism, going only as far as arguing solely against meat-eating. --Ferix 17:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember when I went to see him at G-Mex on 22nd December 2006, the "BETTER BURGER COMPANY" van there had stuck a crude sign over the word "BETTER", replacing it with "VEGI", making it the "VEGI BURGER COMPANY". I was informed that he won't perform anywhere that is selling meat at the time. Anyway, I don't know about him being vegan, but I know he doesn't eat meat. Of course using me as a source is original research, but there you go. --Deskana (request backup) 18:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Not everything you read in magazines is true. It's common knowledge that Morrissey doesn't eat meat and he is firmly against it, but he never said anything about being a vegan, and he never campaigned against the use of dairy or eggs. "Vegi" most likely stands for 'vegetarian', not 'vegan'. And in hsi recent interview on the Russell Brand Show, Morrissey said he doesn't consider himself a vegetarian, "I just don't eat meat." 212.200.209.73

Actually, he admits to wearing leather soled shoes, because there is "no decient alternative". So he can't be vegan. :] --24.15.165.14 05:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

maybe you should read this article "it was reported in the April 2006 issue of SPIN Magazine that Morrissey now wears fake leather shoes".

He is not a vegan. He's remarked numerous times that he eats various dairy products. He also has mentioned eating eggs. He's a vegetarian, not a vegan. He doesn't "eat flesh". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackeyedsioux (talk • contribs) 03:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] influence in popular culture

so, the old "trivia" section has found its way back again. it's a mess, it's mostly relatively irrelevant. purge again? Barbara Osgood 22:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

well, i've taken out most of it. is the rest even relevant now?. we can't list every single time morrissey is referenced anywhere in the cultural world, or every single cover a song (if the original song was significant enough, it should have its own page anyway. if not, the cover is hardly significant). As for Morrissey's influence in the current music scene, a simple sentence somewhere like "Morrissey has been a significant influence on bands such as Fall Out Boy, etc" will do. Barbara Osgood 22:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Socialist?

The List of socialists from Western Europe sites Morrissey as a Socialist. This could certainly be interpreted from many of his songs, foremost being, perhaps, Nobody Loves Us, for example, among others... but does anyone have any published evidence of this? And if so, would it be worthy for addition to this article?--24.15.165.14 05:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stop changing the photo!

Every week someone changes the main photo, please stop doing that. Especially if you don't know how to do it properly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yamanbaia (talk • contribs) 11:48, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

Morrissey's peeps have been unhappy with the photo selections--198.172.207.86 07:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well, Morrissey's "peeps" don't really have a say here (or at least no more than any other editor). Freshacconci 17:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The new photo is hideous and should be changed immediately. People might mistake him for a ginger. Ninmat (talk) 23:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetarians and Animals Rights SOLO music

Has Morrisey, since going solo, produced any vegetarian songs or Animal Rights ones like "Meat is Murder"? Robert C Prenic 16:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

None as explicitly as Meat is Murder. Freshacconci 17:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Any that aren't as explicit? 86.148.131.145 13:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

the only one i can think of is Ouija board,Ouija board where he sings "Well, she has now gone From this Unhappy Planet with all the carnivores And the destructors.." Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages

There's also one called "Yes I am Blind" which goes: "Little lamb on a hill/Run fast as you can/Good Christians they want to kill you/And your life has not even begun".--88.111.125.13 20:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Catholic?

An anonymous editor has twice added a Catholic category to this article. I don't believe we have evidence in the article that Morrissey is in any sense a Catholic; even if he was I think I would want reliable sources and some reason why such an inclusion would be encyclopedic. What do others think? --John 19:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

He was brought up a Catholic, but I would agree that he would really need to be a practicing Catholic now to merit inclusion in the category. --88.111.54.115 11:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

This needs a source per WP:V; without one it should be agressively removed. -- Jza84 · (talk) 11:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I find this odd; all biographies of Morrissey state that he was brought up in a working class Irish Catholic family in Manchester (or thereabouts, see Places section below). This isn't a matter of what his relationship to the Catholic church is now; as the man himself might say, its in the blood, and an unexceptional and ineradicable facet of biography. So why should any such suggestion be "aggressively removed"? Its clearly not a slur. And the notion that one has to be a practicing catholic to actually be one (and thus "merit inclusion in the category") is an odd position. Few of my catholic friends, nor myself, practice or even believe particularly; but indeed catholic is what we are. Zafio (talk) 15:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

See for example the entry for James Joyce. Early in life, Joyce renounced the Catholic church, though it would be absurd to say he was not a Catholic writer. Zafio (talk) 15:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Better picture

Will I be flogged for offering to once-again change the photo to something a bit more flattering? I saw moz for the first time a few days ago and can state with considerable (male-)heterosexual objectivity this is a pretty handsome man and the pic doesn't do him justice.

Let the floggings commence ... CeilingCrash 18:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

If you have a copyright free picture, go ahead and change it (WP:UPIMG), if you don't, stop "offering" and start stalking so as to get one. Yamanbaiia 14:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you, CeilingCrash. If you have a better free picture, please change it. I would also prefer one of the older pictures (around January-March 2007 the main picture was a quite O.K. shot from the 90s) to this one, if there is no recent picture without copyright infringement. And by the hand - I also think you were right to ask first because of the discussion about changing the picture above and I don't understand Yamanbaiia beeing so harsh.--Zommer 08:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

i'm sorry, i didn't meant to be rude it's just that people either complains about the picture or uploads a copyrighted picture, it gets annoying, aynway, i agree with you, the 90s picture was better, thing is the people from morrissey-solo made loads of topics about this (http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=73706) and everyone seems to like this one , but, you know, anyone can edit wikipedia, if you want to change the picture go ahead, there are zillions of people in the world with pictures they took of morrissey, go knock some doors. :) Yamanbaiia 21:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree, he looks like a stroke victim in this picture. jvitre

[edit] Henry Rollins criticism of Morrissey

Another person who may be included as criticising Morrissey is Henry Rollins. In a recent special on Rage (Aus music show) a clip was played of Henry Rollins absolutely ripping into Morrissey. He says something along the lines of "Morrissey embodies every bad trait a person can have". I will need to check the actual quote, but its something to that affect. 211.30.151.144 05:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wilde

It reads that Wilde was a homosexual. He was not. He had a wife and children. He believed in 'Greek Love'.

Greek, homosexual love.

[edit] Tony Quote?

Can I get a source for the Tony Visconti Quote about the next Moz album?

[edit] T.Rex at Belle Vue

According to a questionnaire, the first gig Morrissey attended was T.Rex at Belle Vue, Manchester in July 1972. However, other sources say T.Rex played there on June 16th, not July. Any other sources? Yes, I realise this is incredibly pedantic and 'in 1972' would probably do.

SteveRamone 14:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/studio/4730/rockon.htm --82.69.202.14 15:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joyce royalties

I removed an unsourced statement in the "Feuds within the music industry" section: "As of April 2006, it is understood that Morrissey has paid none of the outstanding royalties to Joyce." Looking for sources, it turns out the truth is more complex than that: according to this statement from Morrissey himself, some back royalties were paid in 1997, and the remainder are being retrieved through various means. I couldn't find anything contradicting this statement or questioning its accuracy, so I took the sentence out. Thomjakobsen 19:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NNDB used as a source

Is there a better source that can be cited for Morrissey's involvement with Amnesty International? NNDB is probably inadequate for Wikipedia's purposes. Mike R (talk) 14:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sounds a lot like...

Yeah, I heard a few songs, and it seems like he sounds much like Jim Morrison. Even the first six letters of the Lizard Man's name match right up.

In effect... could anybody see if there was some sort of inspiration from Morrison? Or The Doors in general? From the context and sound of his music (at least what I have heard), he seems to pull a lot of inspiration from that. I may be wrong, but it's something to think about... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.37.80.173 (talk) 07:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

There's quite a lot of material documenting Morrissey's influences, and I don't believe that the Doors are among them. Morrison's grave gets a lot of Morrissey-related graffiti, though, since it's in the same cemet(e)ry as Oscar Wilde. --89.242.207.108 (talk) 01:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Racism

Might have expected some talk page action following the recent NME article. Just thought it worth noting. Perhaps Wikipedia has managed a reasonable level of neutrality on a contoversial issue, for a change. --89.242.207.108 (talk) 01:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it hasn't really been resolved, has it? Still, worth at least mentioning. 84.69.105.133 (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Places

Can we please get a source for all these places in the lead, biography and infobox?

We have Davyhulme, Hulme, Manchester, Stretford and Urmston all (seemingly) competing for the claim to fame with Morrissey. Intrestingly, there is no mention of Salford! This does need addressing asap. Furthermore, I would like to urge users that at the time of Morrissey's birth in 1959, all of these places were in Lancashire rather than Greater Manchester, and only Hulme was/is in Manchester, the rest are seperate places. -- Jza84 · (talk) 11:14, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

There's also "Hulme, near Moss Side" - do we really need this clarification? It looks a bit like the slightly awkward remains left behind by a dispute. --89.242.205.115 (talk) 23:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Meat is Murder

Worth mentioning in the Animal Rights section? Red Gown (talk) 04:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leather shoes

leather, stating in 1986 that "there is simply no sensible alternative" to leather shoes. He has also said "I find shoes difficult to be ethical about - one just can't seem to avoid leather. One is trapped, ultimately."[52] However, it was reported in the April 2006 issue of SPIN Magazine that Morrissey now wears fake leather shoes.

I have read the above mentioned SPIN article, and Morrissey never states what his shoes are made of, the writer merely infers this because he is aware of Moz's vegetarianism.

I think this needs removing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.30.169 (talk) 13:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

After looking through the article it appears to have been heavily vandalized.

Elsapo (talk) 20:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC) 14 May 2008

[edit] Morrissey as band

Maybe there should be some information included as to the band that have played with Morrissey - i know there's some biographical detail, but it seems to me that some mention should/could be made of his band. When his albums/live shows are billed as 'Morrissey', then that in effect includes his band, I suppose, and maybe that should be factored in? just a thought, if not feel free to ignore me. Andyroo g (talk) 12:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)