Talk:Morris Davis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||
| Stub | This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] | ||
 |
This article is supported by the Military work group. | ||
 |
This article has been automatically assessed as Stub-Class by WikiProject Biography because it uses a stub template.
|
 |
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. | ||||||||
| Stub | This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the quality scale. | ||||||||
|
|||||||||
Contents |
[edit] Criticism
Under the section titled "The Guantanamo I Know," the last line reads, "Criticisms of Davis's claims in this op-ed included:", with a citation following, but no list of criticisms, as one might expect. Any idea why?--76.104.178.183 03:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Explaination of changes
I am responsible for the changes to this article in Jan 06. My original revisions were conducted in a spirit of fairness; I referenced your own articles to guide my updates. There was no grand scheme to anonymously edit your comments, I was just too lazy to register and felt my revisions were both as minute and factually accurate as to go unchallenged. I am changing it again for what I see as obvious reasons.
The press quote from Col. Morris Davis you take issue with: “’You'll hear about Chris Speer who was murdered by Mr. Khadr. Thanks to American medics who stepped over their dead friend, Khadr is alive today,’ Davis said.” [1]
As for my specific objections to your first paragraph-- at the time Speer was mortally wounded it was thought by many on the scene that he was brain dead, as his injuries were so severe. Secondly, there were two dead coalition soldiers on the ground when Khadr was being treated [2]. Thirdly, one medic did in fact treat both Khadr and Speer, Speer was the additional medic. It’s ironic that you would doubt the accuracy of my revision, when you have relied on news articles from second or third sources to guide your “factual” research on what happened during the battle in question. I disagree with your assertions that Morris Davis has been misleading in his press statements. The facts of the case, which have yet been presented, will end all discussion on this matter. I suggest you wait for the decision in Omar Khadr and let the facts of the case emerge before assuming you know what actually happened on July 27, 2002.
Now, I must take issue with your characterization of Speer (the army medic that died following the firefight where Khadr was captured).
You state: Press reports have widely described Sergeant Speer as a "medic" in a way that I feel is highly misleading-- Speer had been in the Army for something like ten years. He did received paramedic training -- not uncommon in modern special forces units.”
SFC Christopher Speer was an 18D---that is; 18 series, with a designation of D, a SF Medical Sergeant. This cannot be disputed. How you can even begin to argue that this is a “misleading” description of Speer would be humorous if it wasn’t so blatantly offensive. By demonstrating a lack of understanding for basic military training and structure you prove an inept at author for any of these articles related to Speer’s combat death. The course to become a medic in the SF is approximately 46 weeks, a lengthy school by Army standards. Special Forces teams work in squads with varying specialties. So SFC Speer does have the apparently unfathomable capacity to be a medic and a squad leader, extensive combat training and specialized training is what makes the SF both a multifaceted and elite fighting force. Speer died clearing a building thought to contain dead of wounded enemy forces, which he ironically would have then treated and evacuated. According to Layne Morris, another soldier wounded during the attack: “(Omar Khadr's)lucky we had a second doctor there. After Omar had killed our first medic, the second one saved his life.” [3} Speer was fatally wounded before he was able to complete his mission that day.
Finally, Speer is not a “Sergeant” he was a SFC, I didn’t catch this the first time, regrettably. I will revise the article to reflect this; there is a big difference between an E-5 and an E-7.
[1](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060111/khadr_hearing_060111/20060111?hub=CTVNewsAt11) [2] (U.S. v Omar Khadr http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov2005/d20051104khadr.pdf) [3] (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=73159&d=14&m=11&y=200)
-CMST- 15 Mar 06 (unsigned comment from User:Cmst66 20:44, 2006 March 15)
[edit] Describing Sergeant as a "medic"
Press reports have widely described Sergeant Speer as a "medic" in a way that I feel is highly misleading.
When Speer was wounded he was leading a squad of men to search the ruins of a bombed out compound for evidence that it had once been part of an al qaeda training camp. The Americans thought everyone inside was dead.
Speer had been in the Army for something like ten years. He did received paramedic training -- not uncommon in modern special forces units. But he wasn't serving as a medic when he was wounded. He was serving as a squad leader.
The description of Speer as a medic implies that Khadr had already surrendered, and lashed out at a non-combatant. I think it is simpler to just leave out Speer's prior paramedic training, than to put in the couple of sentences that would explain that while he had received paramedic training he was acting as a squad leader when he was wounded. -- Geo Swan 19:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Corrections" from an anonymous Pentagon editor.
On January 27, 2006 a wikipedia contributor editing from an anonymous IP address belong to the Pentagon made an edit with the edit summary, "corrected factual inaccuracies".
The anonymous Pentagon editor removed the phrase about Davis's factual inaccuracies, without offering an explanation here on the talk page. They then added the speculation that American medics stepped over wounded comrades to tend to Khadr's wounds, which strains my credibility beyond the breaking point. That kind of unsubstantiated assertion does not belong on the wikipedia. That both men were treated sugggests to me that there were sufficient medics to go around. But I find it very hard to believe that an American medic is going to walk by another wounded American soldier to tend to the wounds of an enemy. -- Geo Swan 22:35, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
- For the record the accidental release of unredacted testimony in early February 2008 confirmed what I suspected. American medics did not ignore SFC Speer's wounds to treat Khadr first. According to OC-1's testimony American medics treated Speer first, and only then treated Khadr's wounds. Geo Swan (talk) 12:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] cleanup tag
The opening paragraph is fine - it tells us who this guy is - but as someone who knows nothing about him or any issues related to him, the second paragraph comes out of nowhere, and from then on the article makes no sense. What is this all about? If there is some issue or issues surrounding this guy, come out straight and say whay they are. Someone who has not allready read something about this guy in the media will have no idea what most of this article is about, and it appears to be about something. - Matthew238 02:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is ridiculous. What happened to providing unbiased information? I have met the man, heard him speak to an audience in fact, this article is embarrassing. Ajordo 04:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] This Article is Ridiculous and Biased
This article is ridiculous. What happened to providing unbiased information? I have met the man, heard him speak to an audience in fact, this article is embarrassing. Ajordo 04:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, you have concerns. Do you have the time to be specific about what you are concerned about? -- Geo Swan 02:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] vandalism?
Someone cut and pasted Davis's entire official biography to serve as the introductor paragraph to this article -- IMO this is a clear violation of wp:not. They didn't even bother to wikify it.
The work of employees of US Federal agencies, in performance of their official duties, is in the public domain. So this is not a {{copyvio}}. But it is a serious misuse of the wikipedia. It seriously erodes the idea that the wikipedia is a reliable, independent source of information.
Perhaps this was a well-intentioned attempt by a complete newbie. Still I suspect most of this should be rolled back.
Cheers! -- Geo Swan 20:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Resignation
Did Davis resign from the USAF? I thought he merely resigned as Prosecutor, and remained in the USAF. Geo Swan (talk) 12:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Following this op-ed in the NYT it says:
Morris Davis, an Air Force colonel, was the chief prosecutor for the military commissions at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, from 2005 to 2007.
- Morris Davis. "Unforgivable Behavior, Inadmissible Evidence", New York Times, February 17, 2008. Retrieved on 2008-02-10.
No, he is the Director of the United States Air Force Judiciary and remains on active duty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.205.156.103 (talk) 15:41, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Question
"Davis also asserted that Sergeant Layne Morris was wounded by the same grenade that mortally wounded Speer. But at least one detailed newspaper account described Morris being wounded prior to the aerial bombardment, four hours prior to Speer's wounding.", the citation[9] does not assert this, are citations mixed up? Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 20:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
