Talk:Morra (game)

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[edit] Archived talk contents

The only content on the original Odd or Even talk page was my suggestion of a merger, which received no response. I'm just making a note here so no one gets confused. I still think the History, Micatio/Micare, and Rules of Morra sections need to be cleaned up. --Culix 20:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I have played Morra in USA, South American and Europe, never heard, nor seen the odd even thing. It is always the sum. Also, all the videos in the net do not show odd even methods. - April 2007 Bigzilla--Bigzilla 06:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section on number analysis

The article used to state:

Allowing a total of zero in an "odds and evens" game, no matter whether it's counted as even or odd, yields an unfair game. However many fingers each player is allowed to hold, the maximum total will be twice that figure - an even number - which makes the total number of "winning" sums equal for both players. Adding zero as a possible total makes the number of possible outcomes odd, which means one player will have a better chance of winning than the other. For this reason, many players disallow a zero sum, requiring a do-over if both players show no fingers.

This is nonsense. First, it only applies if players choose their hands completely randomly with a uniform distribution of probablities, which they are under no obligation of doing. (Few games have a 50-50 win chance when the players act irrationally. Some games just make it easier to act irrationally than others.) Second, "the maximum total will be twice that figure - an even number" does not logically imply "which makes the total number of "winning" sums equal for both players", nor does either of those statements imply that both players would have an equal chance of winning if they DID play randomly. Note that if players are only allowed to choose between showing 1 or 2 fingers, then the minimum result is 1+1=2 and the maximum result is 2+2=4: BOTH even numbers, allowing for a total of 3 (an odd number) different SUMS - but still an equal amount of favorable RESULTS for each player, because the middle sum can be achieved in two different ways, 1+2=3 and 2+1=3. In general the total number of sums will ALWAYS be odd, but the completely-random win chance may or may not be fair without "excluding" a sum, depending on the range of allowed finger counts. If the entire range from no fingers to all five on the hand is allowed, then no sum need be excluded.

I took the liberty of removing this paragraph. -- Milo

On a related note, there's currently this text:

Some variants of Morra allow players to hold out zero fingers. If the total number of fingers is also equal to zero, the game is usually counted as a draw and replayed.

This claim needs a source. The only reference I was able to find for evens and odds actually contradicts it:

"Shoot is rather like mora, except that the two players must guess not the number of fingers thrown, but whether it will be an odd or an even total. The players may throw the fingers on one or both hands (ie each player may throw any number from zero through ten). As they show their hands, the players call out "Odds!" or "Evens!" The fingers are counted (zero is considered an even number) and the winner is determined as in mora."

See the citation in Evenness of zero#Everyday use. If another source can't be found, I'll replace the treatment in the article with this one. Melchoir (talk) 06:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mongolia

While it is true that the game is played both in Mongolia and China (for Mongolia, a reference can be found in the Culture of Mongolia article), I doubt that the Mongolians really use the Chinese name. Also, how the game is played is slightly different in both countries: Chinese just yell the numbers at each other (though rhytmically), while Mongolians do some kind of singing. Yaan (talk) 18:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)