Talk:Moro Crater massacre

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[edit] quote

Most of this article is a quotation from Mark Twain. The text of the quotation should not be altered to meet some current POV or for any other reason. Hmains 07:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] unsectioned material

President Teddy Roosevelt had already declared the Spanish American War over when the Army detachment group attacked villages.

in style and content, this article has been very poorly written. It should be re-done from the ground-up with the utmost attention paid to a bias-free account.

First off, the Spanish-American War was over, so Roosevelt's proclamation was, IIRC, actually about the Philippine Insurrection. Secondly, (again, IIRC - trust but verify), Roosevelt's "Mission Accomplished" didn't apply to Mindanao and Jolo. In other words, this battle/massacre was part of the later Moro Rebellion, not the Spanish-American War or the Philippine Insurrection (which was largely conducted by Christianized Filipinos - the Moros were largely neutral in that conflict).
I agree about the rewrite, though. crazyeddie 15:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mark Twain

This article is not an article on Wikipedia - it is simply a long quote of Samuel Clemens' account of it. it should be renamed, and a real article about the actual event put in, or maybe just added as a sub account of the Philippine page.

As such, it's a breach of Wikipedia:Don't include copies of primary sources. The Twain text is available here at Project Gutenberg. 86.139.229.178 18:51, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

For an actual account of this event titled, The Battle of Bud Dajo, see http://www.bakbakan.com/swishk/swk3-19.html

Well, the good news is we have a source in addition to Swish of the Kris (which is where that link goes). And Mark Twain is writting from an opposing, anti-war POV. crazyeddie 15:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Don't delete this article.

If the superior source material is moved to Wikisource, the remaining text serves as a satisfactory stub, by itself. It's not wikipedian, but I liked this article from the first, and this subject deserves treatment, especially in view of the current unrest in the Philipines, and especially in view of the 100 year anniversary of this event which is less than one month away. Moving this entire article to Wikisource at this exact moment would appear as a POV issue (coverup), even if the intention is other. BusterD 12:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that only the source material should be moved, and the surrounding description should be kept here. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 14:33, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Aw, couldn't we start a POV war? It might be nice to have a bunch of obsessive Moro Rebellion buffs do my research for me... (just kidding) crazyeddie 15:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

What larger work is the source text taken from? Wikisource doesn't host excerpts, but rather complete source documents. I am also concerned about copyright, as I am unsure where this material comes from.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 21:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Aside from the introductory material, the article is mainly an excerpt from Mark Twain's autobiography. The excerpt starts from the heading "Part 1: Monday, March 12, 1906". Somebody gave a link up above. Doing an in-text search for "Jolo" will bring the excerpted section up, a little over half way down. Since it's Mark Twain, copyvio not an issue. Haven't worked with WikiSource enough to know what they will and won't take, but since the entire source document is already available at Gutenberg, I don't think it's a biggie.

On another note, like Buster D pointed out, this massacre/battle seems to be indentical with the Battle of Bud Dajo. They do need to be merged. I'd recommend redirecting Moro Crater massacre to Battle of Bud Dajo - the phrase "Moro Crater massacre" gets more google hits than "Battle of Bud Dajo", but Battle of Bud Dajo sounds better to me. (It's still kind of weird to see my talk page posts turn up on google...) If nobody objects, I'll guess I'll put up the merge notices soonish.

Regardless of the merge, both the Moro Crater massacre and Battle of Bud Dajo articles are in serious need of a rewrite. In fact, pretty much all of the Moro Rebellion articles are. For an American military history class, I'm doing a term paper on a battle of my choice. I've already decided to do it on one of the battles of the Moro Rebellion - probably Bud Dajo, but I'm not for sure yet. I'm currently going through sources (mainly biographies of John J. Pershing and Leonard Wood, plus Swish of the Kris), taking notes. I plan on doing something with the Moro Rebellion articles Real Soon Now, after I get done with the initial research and possibly the actual writting of the paper. Month, two months tops, maybe? Might be a good idea to hold off on the merge until I can bang something out, since I'll be in the neighborhood. crazyeddie 07:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It appears this article is a duplicate of Battle of Bud Dajo

I'll verify this before any changes, then I'll be moving much of this over there, then this should be a redirect. BusterD 23:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The two battles do look disturbingly similar... crazyeddie 15:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I propose we keep this article, and allow it to refer to the last phase of conflict

I suggest that this article be truncated, and focus on the public perception of the First Battle of Bud Dajo, since the name Moro Crater massacre arose out of that perception and public reaction. BusterD 02:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] integrity

To ensure the integrity of this article, I suggest it be placed in block quotes after the accuracy of the quote is re-checked to ensure no editors have modified the Twain quotation. Hmains 06:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Receiving no comment, I added block quotes around what appear to be the words of Twain. Please check. Hmains 07:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)