Talk:Morning Musume

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[edit] Kei sub-leader or co-leader?

From my understanding, since Yuko's graduation Kaori and Kei were co-leaders until Kei's grad (after which there were leader and sub-leader positions). Can anyone confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquawarlock (talk • contribs)

[edit] Abe Natsumi

Nothing about Nacchi leaving due to a plagiarism scandal? She's been on a "leave of absence" since the end of November, but will be returning in February. Here's a forum thread about her return. --Shadowsong 18:01, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well that did occur AFTER she graduated from Morning Musume. Such info is more appropiate for the Hello! Project article. --Pmsyyz 22:14, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames

Is there any reason why all of the nicknames for the band members are wikified? Nicknames should point to the person not to an entirely new article. Addps4cat 08:54, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sub groups

Should all of those groups be listed as sub groups? A Morning Musume sub group is one made up of Morning Musume members, not every Hello! Project group as is listed there. The only ones that would qualify as sub groups would be Sakura Gumi, Otome Gumi, Tanpopo, Mini Moni, and Pucchi Moni. --Sanchny 05:17, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd say "side projects" for acts like ROMANS, Aa!, etc. but I think it would be best to stick with H!P vernacular somewhat and still refer to them as sub groups. Sakuragumi and Otomegumi were referred to as splinter groups at times when the two pair of singles were released but that's about it.

I can see what you mean with some groups listed there, like W (Double You), who technically would be a spinoff group, not a sub group, but that would be getting into rather anal-retentive territory.

I'd say stick with calling every group that's spun off from Morning Musume, even they ended up being one-offs like Aa!, ROMANS, DEF.DIVA, etc., or "new" more permanant acts like W (Double You) and V-u-den. -- Cjmarsicano 06:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I see. But specifically, what about Melon Kinenbi, Coconuts Musume, T&C Bomber, Sheki-dol, and Berryz, none of which have ever had any direct relation to MM in terms of members?

Country Musume, though they've ended up having MM members in their lineup, were originally created separately from MM as well, only sharing the Musume name (like Coconuts). --Sanchny 18:27, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Good idea removing most of the groups from the sub groups, all the H!P groups in that list have been bugging me for a while. Fujimoto and Konno are only "On loan" to Country, so it wouldn't make it a sub group, because like Sanchny said, they just share the Musume name. Sploggers 22:32, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd leave Country Musume alone. Considering that first Rika Ishikawa, and then Asmai Konno and Miki Fujimoto, were also in that band, that kinda makes Country Musume a subgroup of sorts, doesn't it? --Cjmarsicano 22:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't forget Eco Moni! Patiwat 11:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shuffle groups

I think the shuffle groups would be best suited for the Hello! Project article- they've pretty much been all the members of H!P at the time split up into groups (the only big exception I can see is the 2005 shuffles) and aren't specific to Momusu. Or even just put a link to it in the H!P article, seeing as the shuffle groups have their own article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.92.166 (talk • contribs)

Couldn't agree with you more. There is also a page about them right here. I'm gonna go ahead and remove them for now, and if anyone disputes it, can put their reason here for wanting to leave it in the momusu article. Sploggers 21:23, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Onyanko Club

I don't know if it's worth mentioning in the article, but I just learned of a large-member idol group in the eighties called Onyanko Club. Is it worth mentioning that they were the first large idol group and (possibly?) paving the way for something like Momusu? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.228.114.20 (talk • contribs) .

If you have a reference to something stating they were the first large group like that in Japan, then sure, go ahead and add it. --日本穣 04:32, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diagram

Perhaps a sort of Rock Family Tree could be included in the History section.--Darrelljon 18:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] U.S. TV

Morning Musume also appeared on many asian TV programmes. If those are not mentioned, I dont think the US TV appearence worths it. 61.238.68.250 11:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discography

The discography section of this article is quite messy and needs cleaning up. We either do that or just move the whole discography section to a new page, Morning Musume discography, or maybe a subpage. Eugh jei 00:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I just created a new article page and I added a link to it in the Discography section. I haven't fixed up the singles section yet though. --Chuck チャック 05:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ages

How old do the members tend to be? I think you should include that, cuz that's why I came to the page. :P 68.171.240.254 20:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

14-15. Hitomi was about to make 16 when she joined and Koharu was 14 1/2. The youngest at that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.185.125.101 (talk) 00:10, October 23, 2006 (UTC)
I thought Kago Ai was the youngest member to join? She joined when she was 12. I also thought Koharu was 12 when she joined? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yanagi xX (talk • contribs) 01:10, March 24, 2007 (UTC).
Yes, that's correct. If you look through the article, you'll see that there were two members who were 12 when they joined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.99.64 (talk) 21:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaiian Chick

Which one was hawaiian? I don't see Mika Todd's name anywhere here.74.195.3.199 15:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Mika Todd was never a member of Morning Musume and none of its members are from Hawaii. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Azumangadaioh (talk • contribs) 15:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Yoshizawa's nickname

Yoshizawa's nickname is spelled as よっすぃ in hiragana and is romanized directly as Yossui, but there is no way to write "si" is hiragana. I think it's possible that it could be romanized as Yossi because the katakana for "si" is スィ and not "sui" because the "i (ィ)" is smaller. This should also be applied to the hiragana spelling, especially since the "i (ぃ)" is also written smaller. --Charles Nguyen 18:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding this, we're still discussing what should be listed. So if anyone has any feedback on this issue, please feel free to add it! Amber 23:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
(I'm saying this here instead of the Members of Morning Musume article since there is already a discussion here.) No consensus was reached; the discussion should've taken place here anyway. I still oppose to anything other than Yossi, as the official photobooks listing clearly lists it as よっすぃ (it's near the very bottom of the page). -- Tydus Arandor 03:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures by year

Since I've just sorted the history by year, it looks a little plain. If someone who knows how can put singles or pictures by year (something similar to Ayumi Hamasaki), that would be really good. (I don't know how-- yet) Amber 23:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Since no one was taking initiative, I did it myself. I may add the album images instead later, but for now the single images are OK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abarry (talk • contribs)
According to Wikipedia's rules, fair use images aren't allowed to be used to simply decorate a page. The cover images are started to be tagged for deletion; same thing happened on the Ayumi Hamasaki page so now they're using screencaps that have some importance, such as first PV and first major PV. ☆CharlesNguyễn 11:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Last time I checked, CD covers were fair use. Why the hell were they deleted? Oh yeah, Wikipedia being a nazi again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wintertwilight (talk • contribs) 20:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
CD covers are only fair use in their respective articles, but not anywhere else unless the cover is significant in that other article. ☆CharlesNguyễn 22:02, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Song Details

Hey you guys, for the details thing on some of the song pages, make sure they are good details that give good info, because some of the details given were just plain stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.134.172 (talk • contribs)

Please write comments for the specific pages on their own talk pages, not here. abarry✓ 05:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Well... there were two songs with details, I just wanted to put it where ppl would see it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.98.134.172 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Regarding reviews

I've been making a lot of stylistic changes. If you're interested in the details, click here. abarry✓ 02:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Love Machine Curse" section

I believe that we should put a section about the Love Machine curse. It's an important information not only acknowledged by fans, but even Morning Musume members themselves. Eugh jei 01:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

That should go under the love machine article then, not the morning musume article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.134.172 (talk • contribs)
Yes, that should go under the LOVE Machine article, not this one.. abarry✓ 06:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Format for Chinese Members

Since Wikipedia's policy on names is given name first / family name second, even for Asian names, shouldn't the names of the new Chinese members be corrected to "Chun Li" and "Lin Qian"? — Celedam 16:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think Chinese names are a special exception. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese)#Names:
"Personal names in Chinese, unlike Western names, present the family/clan name first. [...] It is standard practice in English to also present the family name first."
The section also mentions using the name most familiar with English readers, and I think there are much more people that remember them as Li Chun and Qian Lin rather than Chun Li and Lin Qian. -- Tydus Arandor (talk) 07:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes. Just follow the format in articles like Mao Zedong (where family name comes first). Da Vynci 18:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Why was the group picture taken down? Using paid photographs is one thing, but why the hell can't we use the one on the Official Hello! Project website? It's free and can be downloaded by just anyone. -- Ishikawa Minoru 23:39, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

In the end, it was removed by a 'bot that was programmed to look for the dispute tags. We could revert the change — or better yet, put up the new picture that was just released on the H!P site — and no one would care or even notice. -- Celedam 19:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
The irritating thing is that, since MoMusu is a current group, and there's no precedent to distinguish between website photos and promotional ones, they'll just keep getting disputed/taken down. It almost seems futile, although last time it had seemed like the admins decided to let it go. (I was about to stabbity-stab people when they were taking down the PetitMoni pics, though...) Shiori 00:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Just thought I'd add one more thing: the taggers may not be so dispute-happy if we tried screencaps from MVs. (I've seen other artists get away with this.) Maybe we should go that route? Shiori 00:12, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
A very tempting route. Let's keep that idea in our back pocket in case there's a dispute again. --CJ Marsicano 02:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I always wondered, would drawing them but not tracing or copying directly from a promotional image be allowed on these pages? Not that I can draw. ☆CharlesNguyễn 01:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the naming of this group

The fact that "Morning" is derived from Japanese-English term "morning set" is widely known in Japan. The producer Tsunku himself says so. If you have a doubt, search for Google using the keywords "モーニング娘。"(Morning Musume) and "モーニングセット"(morning set). Alternatively, see this page (Tsunku's official site) (http://www.tsunku.net/kinentai.htm). The line 9 「コンセプト (concept) は知ってる方もいるとは思いますが、「モーニングセット (morning set) のようなお得感」です。」 CutieNakky 06:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influence?

Perhaps there could be an influence section on how Morning Musume spawned the creation of various other Asian girl groups, namely 4 in Love and Cookies (Hong Kong's first attempt at a large band; eventually reduced to 4 and disbanded) Pandacomics 22:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Members of Morning Musume

I think we should merge the Members of Morning Musume article to this (Morning Musume) article because it's not really that long to be placed in a different article. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 13:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Though if it's going to be merged, we shouldn't add it as another section, and instead add the member's information (ONLY THE IMPORTANT THINGS WHILE IN THE GROUP) to the pertinent years involved. Shiori 23:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I (abarry, not logged in XD) was the one who split the Members of Morning Musume off into a separate article in the first place and that was upon a suggestion from an article review awhile back. This is because it was adding length to an already long page and I was trying to find thing to split off into separate articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.188.202 (talk) 11:22, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
Please read the peer review once again. Brian said, "At the very least, "Members" and "Leaders" should be merged into a single section." He didn't suggest to split the "Members/Leaders" section from the article. Also, the article had been short and had never been updated (except for the "JunJun/LinLin addition" information to the group) ever since its creation (please check this out). Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 15:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter to me, change it back if you want :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.188.202 (talk) 13:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Please don't! The Morning Musume article is currently long enough. Merging Members of Morning Musume back to Morning Musume will compromise readabilty. --Da Vynci 00:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes it will. But if we decide to merge both articles, we can reorganize the whole article, and we can either briefly describe each member or make a "Membership Timeline" section... or something else. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 12:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
>Hi Eugh, well, I am sceptical about what improvement will we acheive by adding/merging list, analysis, paragraph, etc from Members of Morning Musume. The current InfoBox seems doing pretty well for letting people know who are the members and ex-members. If readers need futher information they can well click on the members article. If your goal is to 'reorganise' the article, you (or we XD) can do it without merging articles. I suggest we should extract information from History section and put them into sections with different foci, such as music style, PV style, vocal skill, fashion, fan base , etc. of the group. --Da Vynci 23:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
You have a point. Still, we need to do something about the Members of Morning Musume article. We either merge it with the main article or delete it. *shrugs* Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 02:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
>Well, what about renaming Member of Morning Musume to List of Memeber of Morning Musume? Because it is actually a list, and also this way people will not treat it as an article and will not expect more content (which will overlap with the Morning Musume article). The list of Member seems to be quite useful and could be a quick refernce for those who want to figure out the generations aspect of MM. Also a small introduction about what 'generation' is would be nice for readers who are not familar with the world H!P --Da Vynci (talk) 18:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's with "graduation"?

Graduation infers departure from an academic institution. I don't understand the context in which it is used here; it seems to me like it is used here in a marketing sense. --Kooky (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I just found the graduation article and am no longer confused (it's evident now that it is a marketing ploy). Thanks. --Kooky (talk) 05:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Important fans

you have to add that Mihona Fuji (the autor of the manga "Gals!") is a great fan of the morning musume, and the band also nominated the Fuji one of their preferred mangaka —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.0.168 (talk) 11:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, my dear, is it notable? More bluntly: Will anyone care about it? IceUnshattered (talk) 00:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion

Who the hell keeps deleting the thread on english covers?74.226.161.236 (talk) 05:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Me. Talk pages are not the place for forum chatter.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 06:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
HOW WAS IT FORUM CHATTER?74.226.161.236 (talk) 20:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
It was forum chatter because this is basically what you said: "omg where can i listen to english covers?" It wouldn't have been forum chatter if you said something like "Is there a way to integrate the existence of English covers into the article?" Talk pages are to discuss how to improve the article – not for chatting about the article's subject.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 20:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Are there any english covers???? God, I want to know, and it think it would be appropriate to keep info like this ( if the english version is formally published instead of mere fan cover) --Da Vynci (talk) 20:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There are. They released two "Cover Morning Musume" albums. Some artists that I know who covered Morning Musume songs are Tiffany (singer), Irene Cara, Vanessa L. Williams. I think this information should be in the article, but information about it is very limited. c",) Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 16:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

You know the name of the covers?199.80.117.25 (talk) 23:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation needed here

""Morning" is derived from Japanese-English term "morning set" (corresponding to "breakfast special")."

Fine, but where is this information from? Morning isn't a word that was "derived" from anything as far as I know. Deleted, unless someone can come up with a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.136.139 (talk) 06:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free image being used

Xxskawt Posted this [1] non-free image. Although it contains a fair use rationale, it may violate WP:NFC since Wikipedia mainly only allows Free images to be used in articles. I would have you all review what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. I would come up with a consensus before reverting the picture back. Opinions welcome. Momusufan (talk) 21:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Is there a mod or anyone who can make an executive decision or something like that? Skawt (talk) 01:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I am guessing it would be tagged as replaceable in the future (not days, but maybe in the upcoming months) since the group is active and make presentations (even if you cannot take a picture in the concerts). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)