Talk:Morihiro Saito

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[edit] Uchi deshi

There is a recent debate on the Aikido Journal forum about what it means to be an uchi-deshi and as such I question the use of the term in this article. Let me be clear that I consider Saito Sensei as one of the closest of O-Sensei's deshi and there is no intention to diminish his accomplishments in budo or his sincerity in his efforts to preserve the founders art.

• Pros to using the term uchi-deshi:
  1. He lived and cared for one of O-Sensei's most important dojos for many years and was given the responsibility for the care of the site on his death.
  2. He is now revered for his efforts to preserve O-Sensei's art, particularly his weapons techniques.

• Cons to using the term uchi-deshi:
  1. Kisshomaru Ueshiba, O-Sensei's son, has stated that there were no uchi-deshi after World War II. This would undercut the claims of many Aikido instructors. This statement seems to use a very strict definition of the term.
  2. Saito Sensei had a job most of this time so was unable to do the constant training usually associated with beint an uchi-deshi.
  3. The use of the term is POV in that it is intended to boost the standing of Saito Sensei. I don't believe that his standing needs to be boosted in any artificial way. I think that his great accomplishments stand on their own. This article is otherwise NPOV.

For full discolsure: I am an Aikikai Sandan in the USAF-ER and have never trained directly with Saito Sensei. I have trained at times with those that have trained with him and I consider myself an admirer of his teaching. Edwinstearns 16:37, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Indeed the word uchi deshi is used to boost Saito, but indeed he was a major long time student of osensei. If we can find another wording with pretty much the same content, then we avoid defining the uchi deshi topic term indeed is messy. Habj 18:55, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It should be noted that in none of the Japanese materials published by Saito-sensei does he refer to himself as an uchideshi. Rather it is as "uchideshi douzen", or "uchideshi douyou", "the same as an uchideshi". The key thing with Saito was that he had a 24-on, 24-off work schedule, so he was not an uchideshi in the sense that he lived in the dojo and depended on Ueshiba for support. However, on his off days he essentially was an uchideshi, caring for Ueshiba and rigorously training. I suggest the following wording:

"Although other students such as Koichi Tohei trained with Ueshiba for more years than Saito did, Saito's work allowed him to train almost as an uchideshi, for long periods as the only student, from 1946 until Ueshiba’s passing in 1969." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.199.90 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Pic-link dead

I think the photos in this page needs to be updated. As of right now, 31st december 2004, the pic-link is dead.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fred26 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Iwama Ryu

I very much doubt that you can claim Hitohiro Saitos org. to be the Iwama Ryu. It is another organisation. Habj 18:48, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, Iwama Ryu in Europe, as near as I can tell, doesn't refer to itself as "organization" (with attendant administration, dues, etc.) but rather a "network". At the same time, a number of Shin-shin Aikishurenkai's dojo's Japanese pages use 岩間流 as a referrent to their style. But the entry is certainly misleading as written. I'd suggest the following rewording:

"For a period of time, some of Saito's student's in the West formed a network of dojos called Iwama Ryu and got their grades directly from Saito rather than in Aikikai, although they were often given the possibility to choose. Morihiro Saito, however, never left the Aikikai. After his death, his son Hitohiro was requested by the Aikikai not to give out Iwama Ryu gradings. In order to continue giving out the gradings, Hitohiro formed the independent Shin Shin Aikishuren Kai. Some of the Iwama Ryu network dojos joined Hitohiro, while others officially joined the Aikikai."

The last paragraph of the article, concerning Hitohiro Saito can be dispensed with altogether, since it concerns him more than Morihiro, and repeats information in his article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.199.90 (talk • contribs)