Template talk:MontrealNeighbourhoods

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Should places just appear once? I see, for example, that Verdun is there both as a borough and neighbourhood, which is surely is, but should we be trying to avoid duplication? Unlike, Le Plateau-Mont-Royal and The Plateau, which are two different articles, in the case of Verdun they both direct you to the Verdun borough article. I'll remove it. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't really sure if I should include some of them twice like that or not. The borough of Verdun (as well as the former city of Verdun) includes Nun's Island, while the neighbourhood of Verdun does not. I guess it would be better to leave duplicates off to avoid confusion. MTLskyline (talk) 02:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
By the way, thank you Shawn for your help in improving the template! Cheers. MTLskyline (talk) 02:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
My great pleasure. BTW, I've been adding the template to every city or neighbourhood cited. I'm about halfway through. Some of them are mere stubs, but I figure, hey, if you're in the template the template should be on you. I have a question, though, is it problematic that there already is a boroughs of Montreal template? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh and by the way, if there is a neighbourhood of Verdun article that's distinct from the borough article I think it should be included, a la Le Plateau. I just didn't see one. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, you guys are doing a great job with this template. But I wonder if it shouldn't be split into templates with the municipalities of the Montreal Metropolitan Community on one hand, and several smaller ones for the subdivisions of Montreal, Laval, Longueuil, etc., on the other. That way if the template is included somewhere the authors can pick and choose what they want, and it will cut down on size. Joeldl (talk) 03:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Several of the sections do in fact already exist separately, too, as you probably know. Boroughs of Montreal, Montreal island muncipalities and Longueil agglomeration, I think. I'm certainly not opposed to splitting but I had no hand in creating it, either. You might also want to raise this at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board? In particular, I'd be curious to see what Bearcat's take is. He's sort of my guru on all things category and template-related. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 06:19, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Upon consideration, here's what I think. The template serves a valuable need but is too big. It takes up half a page. We already have a complete list of the municipalities in the GMA main article so this need not reproduce that. I would like to see this template pared down so that we just have the "meta"-level articles: City of Montreal, Boroughs of Montreal, Longueil agglomeration, Laval, etc. But not a compendium of all the little constituent parts of each, as we have now. Or to put it another way, those section headings in the left border become the sole content of a much leaner template. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, that could possibly be useful, on its own or maybe as part of a larger "Montreal topics" template or something.
I think the following separate templates would be or are useful:
  • "Montreal neighbourhoods" (whose content would be just that).
  • Template:Urban agglomeration of Montreal already exists.
  • "Municipalities of the CMM/Montreal CMA"
  • Template:Montreal is a list of boroughs of Montreal
  • "Longueuil neighbourhoods": already part of Template:Urban agglomeration of Longueuil
  • "Laval neighbourhoods": has already been written as "Communities in Laval" at the bottom of the Laval, Quebec page, but doesn't exist as a template.
The only thing is, I don't know whether I would merge "Montreal neighbourhoods" and "Montreal boroughs" into Template:Urban agglomeration of Montreal or not. Possibly. Or possibly just merge the first two. But in an article on a Montreal neighbourhood, I don't think it makes sense to have Longueuil ones listed, for example, or off-island municipalities. I would keep Longueuil, Laval and Island of Montreal neighbourhoods/boroughs separate.
I disagree with you on Greater Montreal. In an article on a municipality, I think a Greater Montreal municipalities template would make sense. I've put one together for Quebec: Template:Greater Quebec. A Montreal one would be bigger - maybe we'd have to join the groups into larger units than RCMs to save space. As an alternative, we could just have separate Northern Ring and Southern Ring templates, but that's not my preferred option. Joeldl (talk) 22:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we agree at that a GMA template of some kind is important. The Greater Montreal Area is a vital nucleous of something in Quebec, and as you know its sometimes been defavoured in favour of the regions and tended not to get its due. If what you did for Template:Greater Quebec could be adapted to Montreal, but in a form which is at least somewhat smaller than what we have now -- which is great, but just too big, IMO -- I'd be in favour of that, too. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:18, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think splitting them into the following templates would be best:
    • City of Montreal: including boroughs, neighbourhoods, etc.
    • Urban Agglomeration of Longueuil: keep as is (I added a neighbourhood section to it)
    • City of Laval: List neighbourhoods
    • Greater Montreal Area: List of all the independent municipalities in greater Montreal, divided into Island of Montreal, Laval, South Shore, North Shore and Vaudreuil area. No boroughs, districts or neighbourhoods, just cities/towns in the GMA.

MTLskyline (talk) 22:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

All right, I've created Template:Greater Montreal. I've only put it on two or three pages. It should replace this template on all municipality pages. Joeldl (talk) 10:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks good, at least IMHO. But how do you figure that Pincourt, Vaudreuil and the like are "South Shore"? To me, they lie to the west. Ditto Repentigny, to the east. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, for Repentigny, it's easy because it's basically a matter of which side of the river it's on. For Vaudreuil, etc., you have to decide whether you're talking about the Ottawa River or the Saint-Lawrence. The CMM seems to base it on the Ottawa River. See the reference given at the top of the template page and search by geographical sector, selecting "Couronne nord" or "Couronne sud".
I'd like to centre the top line, but I don't know how to do it, technically. Maybe you can help if you know. Joeldl (talk) 23:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

No, sorry. I'm pretty clueless on the formatting stuff. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] West Island

I realize its not a single neighbourhood, but is there a way that West Island could appear somewhere in this template, perhaps as a "See also"? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, if there is anywhere in particular you can think of adding it? MTLskyline (talk) 02:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I don't know how to do this myself, but I see that on some templates there's an added border at the bottom with a See also section. Perhaps that would be possible here, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Old Port

Does the Old Port, which is federal parkland with no residents, really qualify as a Neighbourhood? It's correctly listed as a park in Template:Montreal landmarks, but I don't believe it should appear here, as well. Anyone disagree? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Enclaves

I don't think enclaves are a meaningful sub-category for the purposes of this template. I recommend abandoning that. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)