Talk:Montenegrin independence referendum, 2006

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Part of the article about languages should be verified. From what I know they renamed it to 'mothertongue language' then back to serbian then I am not sure. I am adding the tag for verification. Avala 16:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

"On May 21, the people of Montenegro voted 56% in favour of independence. This is more than the 55% required for the vote to be ratified.".

As it's currently 0300 (BST) on the morning of the 21st, this seems a little premature. I have been bold and removed it. Alasdairrussell 0300, 21 May 2006

It would seem somebody had the same thought as I did, at the same time, and did it while I was adding this comment on the talk page. Either way, I'll leave it as a record of the change.Alasdairrussell

Contents

[edit] Reconstruction of Serbian govt.?

Why will the Serbian government need to be "reconstructed" if Montenegro votes to break away? The Serbian govt. is totally separate from the govt. of Serbia and Montengro, correct? --Jfruh 03:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm neither a Serb, nor a Montenegrin, but my best guess is that there are Montenegrins in the Serbian government, who will suddenly be citizens of a new country, if Montenegro votes in favour of independence.--84.26.109.69 19:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
My own guess is that the dissolution of the state union will transfer some federal responsibilities to the Serbian government who will have to nominate new ministers for this task. I'd be very surprised if there were Montenegrin citizens in the Serbian government. But this is just a guess; I'm sure someone has a better idea than me.--Suimpos 04:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
It's just a guess either way really. If Serbia becomes independent, some formalities will have to be done between Serbia and Montenegro - defining new relations, dividing "wealth", etc. Now, as the Serbia&Montenegro right now doesn't really function, there won't be much to be done. Military needs to be divided (de facto it already is), and that's about it. E.g. both states already have ministries of foreign affairs. --dcabrilo 04:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Not officialy,although many of Serbian state officals are Montenegrians(amongst other Serbian President Boris Tadic).Milosevic was also montenegrian.They all have Serbian citizenship though,so thats not a problem.

Serbian Goverment should resign because they kept promising to us that Serbia and Montenegro will be togather,and IF(although it seems like referendum failed,will know in 10 am) but IF referendum won,then Serbian goverment should resign and apologise for lying to us Dzoni


Cabrilo,please dont lie to these foreigns that just want to know whats happening.Military is not devided,neiter de facto or de jure ,because its in Federal autority with one Minister of it(Zoran Stankovic) and one commanding General and also all basis all in the federal jurisdiction... Dzoni

[edit] No reconstruction needed

What some of the comments above do not seem to recognize is that under the current "union," there is a government of Serbia, a government of Montenegro, and a government of "Serbia and Montenegro." Each republic's government deals mostly with "internal issues" while the "union" government of "Serbia and Montenegro" deals mainly with defense, foreign policy, immigration and other matters requiring joint action. (I get all this from the above-linked articles and a few others on Wikipedia, but it all seems logical.) Therefore, I think it is safe to say that the situations discussed above will not occur. There will not suddenly be droves of Montenegrins leaving the Serbian government, because the Montenegrins are not formally represented in the Serbian government; they are represented in their own government and in the "Serbia and Montenegro" government, while the Serbians are represented in THEIR own government and the "Serbia and Montenegro" government. Yes, there are ethnic Serbians whose families are from Montenegro and who may end up in the Serbian government (which was true of Milosevic), and the reverse, but that has nothing to do with the formal structure of the government. And by the way I looked at the article on the current president of Serbia, Boris Tadic, and it appears that contrary to the statement above, he is Serbian all the way. It is the current president of "Serbia and Montenegro," Svetozar Marovic, who is Montenegrin.

Presumably, what will happen now is that the responsibilities for defense, foreign policy etc. will be assumed by each of the republics and the government of "Serbia and Montenegro" will cease to exist, just as occurred with the U.S.S.R. 6SJ7 16:15, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time of results

On, Sunday, May 21 at 21:00 (CEST) (19:00, UTC), the results of the referendum could be ready Should we get rid of this seing as 1900 UTC has passed and there are no results? Horses In The Sky talk contributions

[edit] Percentage of Yes Votes

I thought there was 76% yes votes for independence, not 56. This is because I am watching the referendum on RTV BN. CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 20:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Referendum question

The article says:

  • "Do you want Montenegro to be an independent state with full international and legal legitimacy?" [1]

Are we sure that's actually the question being asked? The source seems unclear. And wouldn't it be asked in Serbian, not English? Melchoir 23:15, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

If you can find the original please add it, with a source, then replace the translation with a better one if need be.
Right, dcabrilo did it. (Thanks!) Melchoir 07:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't think "judicial" is the right word here: it has a fairly narrow meaning relating to courts of law and judges. While I don't know Serbian, I imagine that "međunarodno-pravnim" refers to the concept called "international law" in English. Perhaps "Do you want the Republic of Montenegro to be an independent state with full legitimacy in international law?" Martin Orr 17:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I think you are right. Actually, what it says is: "međunarodno-pravni subjektivitet". It means that it would be a (independent) "subject" before the international law, meaning it would get all rights and obligations of an internationally recognized country. Feel free to reword it as you see fit. --dcabrilo 17:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
OK, I didn't know what "subjektivitet" meant. It seems that "full subject of international law" is a technical legal term, so either we should use that, or "Do you want the Republic of Montenegro to be an independent state with full international and legal personality?" which, while not reading perfectly in English, is the form used by OSCE and the Venice Commission (e.g. page 6 of [2]) Martin Orr 23:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and included the OSCE translation, since we can easily source that. I also made a note that it is OSCE's translation. When I first tried to translate it, I actually wanted to use word "personality" for "subjektivitet", so it suits me :) Also, I removed the question mark, because it does not in fact appear on the ballot. --dcabrilo 04:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I still have a question. Why is the question written in the Latin alphabet? An article on Motenegro said that the cryllic alphabet was used for the question on the ballot (I don't know how reliable the source is): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Montenegro#Montenegrin_language
I imagine they had ballots in different languages, or at least scripts, but that's a good point. Anyway, what difference does it make? It's imho better to have it here in latin, so English speakers can look up specific words in dictionary easily (e.g. to understand subjektivitet:). --dcabrilo 05:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timetable for independence

What is the timetable for the dissolution of the union if there's a 'yes' vote? When would federal institutions be dissolved, or Belgrade's jurisdiction over Montenegro cease? Will there be an immediate declaration of independence followed by a delay while jurisdictional matters binding Montenegro to Serbia are sorted out, or will things be less rushed? Any idea when the EU will officially recognise Montenegro, or when it will formally apply for membership of the UN? Surely these things have been discussed, but there's no mention of them in the article. 129.234.4.1 23:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

All good questions, and worth including in the page once we get answers. There was a b92 article from a few days ago with Milo predicting Montenegrin membership in the UN by September, which suggests he expects an orderly-enough process of disentanglement and no UDI. Considering Montenegro's new mission is to cuddle up to the EU, I doubt there'll be any sense in rushing things and complicating the situation. I get the sense that Western states in general are going to fall in line with whatever recognition steps the EU takes pretty much instantaneously. The Tom 01:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I think I got most of the questions answered (well sourced too, I'll add links to documents later on). Do tell me if some things are unclear, and I'll try to improve it. See current first two sections. --dcabrilo 02:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1992 referendum

Anyone willing to write an article on the referendum in 1992 which came out almost unanimously in favour of continued union due to a boycott? Montenegrin independence referendum, 1992. 129.234.4.1 23:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Of the 66% who voted 95%+ were in favour, so it wan't exactly due to a boycott that that referendum succeeded. --estavisti 21:09, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violations

A big chunk of the article was copy/pasted from b92.net (and links were provided). I removed most (all?) of it, but please keep an eye on further copyvios. --dcabrilo 05:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

This was the offending edit: [3] I will leave a note on his user page, but I will ask everybody to please keep an eye on copyvio in this article once more. Thanks --dcabrilo 06:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independence

What is the projected date of Montenegro actually splitting from Serbia? Duke Nikola of Montenegro 02:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

None yet. However, May 25th, 2006, at 11 o'clock is when a "ceremonial assembly of the Montenegrin government" will take place. Perhaps that's when they will declare independence. Then again, parliament needs to be in session, and the day might not be the most suitable one :) --dcabrilo 23:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Djukanovic's comments to the press suggest that there will be no declaration (or more accurately, no immediately effective declaration) until things are sorted out with Serbia. The 60 day rule seems to mean "begin negotiating the split within" not "declare independence within". You might see a formal vote to proceed with the division, to be effective on, say, July 1 at midnight, though. International law takes time. The Tom 23:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The date given most often is 13 July, the anniversary of Montenegro's first independence. Search Google News, you'll find sources for that date. (Or check list of European Union member states. =]) —Nightstallion (?) 23:43, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Milo Đukanović and mafia case

The article needs to discuss what role the Italian prosecution against PM Milo Đukanović played in the referendum.

[edit] Results

I think it would be nice to see the results in a table form with the exact percentages of the municipalities in favor and against. Currently the part which is describing the distribution of votes in the municipalities is not easy to read.

It could be done something like:

municipality | in favor | against | reason
   foobar    |    50%   |   50%   | albanian majority

This makes it easier to read I guess; or would it be too much like the [4] website? --Van der Hoorn 15:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polls

I remember that there were two major polls on the referendum, just before it. Can anyone find them? --PaxEquilibrium 17:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:No to independence-CG.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 00:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)