Talk:Monitor lizard

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[edit] Sand Monitor Pictures

Hi, Can you lizard experts please help these two images find a home?

Sand monitor on Brampton Island, Queensland.

Sand monitor walking tracks in sand.

I know nothing about lizards, so I don't know what species of lizard this is, hence I have no idea where these images should go. All I know is that people referred to them as "sand monitors". Advice sought. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 06:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

There is an arcticle in goanna called sand goanna I presume it would go there.--βjweþþ (talk) 17:29, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you - I added a very basic stub at sand goanna, but people who know about lizards really should double-check it. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 23:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Venomous?

this article says that some monitor lizards, including komodo dragons, are venomous, but the komodo dragon page says that they are in fact not venomous, they just harbor 50 strains of bacteria, which I've heard several times before. I would change it but it says that's a new theory so for all I know they may have found true venom in komodo dragons, whichever is the case, either this page and the venom page should be changed or komodo dragon should.--CallmeNiel 08:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I had thought it was rather well accepted that this was a common myth about monitors (especially the Komodo Dragon). Moreover, the Goanna page appears to suggest that Monitors do not produce venom. Since the article cites no references, I've editted to list it as such. If references aren't added in the future, someone should remove the disputed text.--Anthony Liguori 16:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image moved

I moved the image of the Nile monitor down into the section where it actually appears [right now, on my monitor...I've got Civ3 running, so I think my res is currently 640x480]. The reason I did this (it doesn't change the appearance at all on my monitor) is because all the [edit] tabs were clustered down by the species list, whereas now they're all at the "right place"s. I don't know if this is a software problem or a browser problem (I'm using FireFox on a Windows box right now). Just in case anyone's wondering why I made such an apparently pointless (at first blush) edit... Tomertalk 05:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] oaran / warnen story

Uh...this oaran / warnen story is really suspicious. That w is pronounced with a v sound (a sound Arabic doesn't even have), and so is just as likely to be confused with oaran as almost any other word. Is there some better source for this legend, perhaps citing specific naturalists? — Laura Scudder ☎ 14:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources Added, some Information Removed

Does the "waran" story sound better now that the "w" turns into a "v"? However, with your objection, it seems we should be skeptical about "waran" meaning "monitor" in Arabic (which pg. 3 of this big Varanid tome claims). Do you know if the arabic word is still correct?

I removed the bit about varanids being the "most advanced" lizards; evolution does not have a direction. I also removed the bit about "unhinged" jaws, as even snakes don't unhinge their jaws. They've got a pretty amazing joint, an ability to move each side of the mouth separately, and the joint has amazing freedom of movement, but it doesn't disattach, or "unhinge." My quick persual of the big varanid tome I referenced didn't give me anything special about their jaws, and when I feed varanus exmanthicus mice, they don't seem to have particularly special jaws. I also took out the bit about "no fangs" because varanids aren't the only ones with venom and no fangs; snake fangs are a special snakes-only adaptation.

The venom bit is in Nature, so I put the actual scientific article as the reference. I know most people can't read it, but, as it's something many are skeptical about, I thought going for the most reputable source would be the best move. Of course, even the 2004 varanid tome I keep yacking about says varanids don't have venom and use icky bacteria, although it does say that they have proteins that are like venom in their mouths. I think Nature's editors summaries are freely available, so I'm putting that up, too, as the same reference as the article. I'd really like feedback to make sure that summary is readable and the source convincing. Enuja 03:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arabic waral, not waran

Being a native Arabic speaker, the last letter is L and not N (ورل) and has always been pronounced like that in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and other places. I saw it written this way in books and on the internet. Even the Arabic translation of the Bible (Lev 11:30) spells it with an L (see here for example. So, definitely, the Latinized sources that say "waran" or "varan" (V and W being the same sound in different parts of Europe) are definitely wrong. --KB 06:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your amazingly swift response! What is the definition of the Arabic word "waral"? (I both want to be sure we are talking about the same word, and I want to make sure the meaning is as I explain it on the page.) Enuja 07:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Best link to use

I removed two recent edits. One was either vandalism or a test (inserted "math" and "blah" and changed formatting. The other may actually warrant discussion, but I suspect that my choice is fairly uncontraversial. A link to front page of Sanctuary Asia [1] was replaced with a link to a forum post [2]. Although the forum post does appear to be the photographer decribing how the photo as taken, I, personally, have very little faith in the veracity of things posted on blogs. If someone can convince me that this is a reputable source, I'd be very happy with having that information linked, as it is more detailed and interesting than a link to Sanctuary Asia's website. Enuja 08:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

  • How about using the link to the cover art only? http://www.sanctuaryasia.com/adminimages/coverfeb2007.jpg Enuja 05:55, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I removed the link to the sanctuary asia magazine all together. I was looking over WP:EL (the external links policy), and the link to a picture of fighting varanids doesn't really seem like "important" trivia, and the page already has perfectly good pictures of varanids. I don't think I like the fact that this page has a "trivia" section at all; pop culture mentions of varanids seems like a more appropriate section, and a simple cover wouldn't go in such a section. Enuja 08:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Apparent Intelligence

I consolidated the sources in this section. However, I'm a little concerned about possible copyright violations from the Answers.com Varanidae page. I'll get to reading that page more carefully and editing this page to avoid copyright violation, but it would be great if someone got to that before I did. Enuja 15:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply on "Apparent Intelligence"

I wouldn't worry about it too much about the reference to the Answeres.com page - the information is also contained in: ^ King, Dennis & Green, Brian. 1999. Goannas: The Biology of Varanid Lizards. University of New South Wales Press. ISBN 0-86840-456-X, p. 43, which I have also referenced

I am more concerned about the request for a citation on the account of the wounded Lace monitor in Cooktown requesting eggs. This is from the observations of myself and my partner, Jo Wynter. I carefully referred to his matter under the qualification of "informal observations" hoping that would be sufficient to report it here. Perhaps it isn't. Do readers think this is good enough? John Hill 07:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi! I'm not worried that "Answers.com" is an unreliable source, I'm worried that instead of paraphrasing the source, your use of the source might qualify as a copyright violation.
No, it isn't acceptable to put in this encyclopedia anything you have observed yourself. Everything must be attributable, which means that you can't include any "original research." Now, it's perfectly okay to get your observation published somewhere and then to cite yourself, but it's not okay to put on Wikipedia something that you discovered yourself. Incidentally, while not good for an encyclopedia, that's a really interesting observation; if the goanna is still coming to your house, you might want to get someone else out there to document its behavior. Enuja 03:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

After copying, pasting, comparing in word, and highlighting similarities between the answers.com and wikipedia texts, I see that the similarity isn't that extensive; I'll just edit the article to get rid of it. Here are the similarities in green, with words you omitted in brackets:

Varanid lizards appear to be [much] more intelligent than [most] other lizards. The most surprising finding comes from research done on captive V. albigularis by John Phillips at the San Diego Zoo. It appears that some species can count. Careful studies feeding V. albigularis specimens with varying numbers of snails show that they can distinguish numbers up to six.[5][4][6]
At the National Zoo,in Washington, D.C., Komodo dragons, [individual] V. komodoensis, apparently have different "personalities" and can recognize each of their keepers.[4]
V. niloticus has been observed to cooperate when foraging. One appears to act as a decoy to lure the female crocodile away from her nest while the other one opens the nest to feed on the eggs. The decoy then returns to also feed on the eggs.[7][4]

As you can see, I'm fine with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th sentences. It's only the 1st and 5th sentences that I'm worried about. But I had to go through the Answers.com text with a fine toothed comb to figure all of that out, and now I'll need to edit the two sentences that I have trouble with. It would have been really nice if you'd just written the wikipedia text while not looking at the answers.com text, or knocked yourself on the head if you are one of those unfortunate soles with perfect recall, because then it never would have looked like plagiarism to me and I'd never have done all of that silly work.Enuja 04:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've edited the section. I'm still not happy about the grammar, but I think it's no longer a copyright violation or plagiarism. Enuja 05:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Apologies for wasting so much of your time. I will try to be more careful next time. I like your new wording but have just added in "seem to" as a qualifier in the final phrase. John Hill 05:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
No problem! If I didn't want to waste my time, I wouldn't have done the word by word comparison.  ;-) (Yes, I'm procrastinating.)Enuja 05:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of venomous animals category

Why is it misleading to put varanids in the category of venomous animals? The category isn't "animals with venom dangerous to humans," or least I'm assuming it's not. Varanids do have venom, and this interesting, so a person should be able to happen across this interesting fact as they peruse the category for venomous animals. Enuja 23:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Size variation

Evolution of Varanid Lizards
Eric R. Pianka
Department of Zoology, University of Texas
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~varanus/varanus.html

- Interesting article foccussing on variation in sizes of Varanus species. -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 19:31, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What Lizards are these

Taken around the shores of Sydney Harbour, what kind of lizards could this be. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. (talk) 13:13, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Shores of Sydney Harbour
Shores of Sydney Harbour
Taken at Malabar, New South Wales
Taken at Malabar, New South Wales
This was taken at Mosman, New South Wales
This was taken at Mosman, New South Wales
If you don't know what kind of animal it is, do NOT link it on a page, and then revert an edit when someone knowledgeable on the subject removed it. I have a bearded dragon myself, and your critter is not a bearded dragon. I can't tell you what it is, but I know what it is not, and adding it to a page when you don't know what it is is a mistake and probably against wikipedia policy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.142.181.179 (talk) 02:31, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] size

you need to mention average sizes in this articles —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.151.19.246 (talk) 19:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

yes, how big are they? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.58.200.148 (talk) 21:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] most derived

Article currently reads: "Monitor lizards are considered to be the most derived lizards,"

Does that mean anything? It doesn't seem to. Derived means "originated" or "descended", usually used with "from".

Ordinary Person (talk) 10:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a euphemism for "most advanced" since groups are not more advanced than others. They may just have changed more. And varanids are, apparently, thought to have changed more from the last common ancestor of all lizards than other lizards have. If you can come up with a better way to say that, please edit that section! - Enuja (talk) 19:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Will do. I'll think on it. Ordinary Person (talk) 02:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


I don't have an account, but I'm doing a project on the Varanoid Lizards and the Emerald Tree Monitor is definitely not an herbivore. Check Varanoid Lizards of the World by Pianka nad King p228 if you don't believe me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.131.16 (talk) 01:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)