Talk:Monasticism
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[edit] Wiki monastics?
i wonder if wikipedians could be called monastic, similar line of work hehe
"True monasticism"?
Well, some of us are anyway :) --Frmaximos 15:44, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] True monasticism?
I am moving the following paragraph to this talk page, as I believe tat it is not applicable to all the religions mentioned in this article - particularly the reference to "God". olivier 16:20, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)
- "True monasticism consists not in wearing a particular uniform or haircut, not in participation in the rite of "initiation", and not in getting new names. True monastic status can only be acquired as a result of one's love and devotion to God and one's personal spiritual efforts."
[edit] Shinto monasticism?
I wonder if Shinto mikos can be considered monastics within the context of their religion and thus added to this page. Mitsukai 19:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] More appropriate illustration?
Re: Christian monasticism. Presumably a very important photograph for Christian historians; but since there is space for only one example of a Christian monk in this article, is it possible to find a depiction more representative of the majority Christian monk/nun look?
Portress 12:45, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Islamic monasticism?
I'll have say that the section on Islamic monasticism is quite uninformed and rather unbalanced. Islam and Muslims in general refer to their religion as non-monastic: "لا رهبانية في الإسلام"
The dervishes mentioned in the article are a minority sect that are not considered mainstream.
Perhaps a short introduction could clarify this. Until then I would submit to you that the accuracy of that section of this article should be marked as "disputed".
- As you've requested, I've written an introduction to clarify he Islamic position on monasticism.
"Although Islam denounces monasticism and celibacy, today one may encounter some Muslim traditions with innovative practices that have absorbed monastic disciplines. According to a verse (57:27) in the Qur'an, a sacred text of Islam, Allah rebukes monasticism as a man-made invention and a practice which has never been "prescribe for them." Despite clear prohibitions from the Qur'an and Sunnah (a second source of Islamic law), monasticism has ironically found a place in the religious practice for many Muslims."
Usedbook 05:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Merging with 'Religious Order'
Yes, it does seem very possible. But the concept of monasticism is broader than a listing of those orders that take on the practice and lifestyle. I would be happy to see the content of the Religious Order article be brought into this article in so much it offers examples of practising monastic groups. It would also be practical to redirect the search term 'religious order(s)' to monasticism, however, I see it as important to maintain the title 'monasticism' as it covers the broader idea. Example: "all of these are examples of oblongs and squares; they all come from a study of rectangles."Danieljames626 03:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Monasticism is a subcategory within religious orders. You see, there are "third orders", "chivalric orders", and I think some other kinds that do not come to my mind right now. The specific trait of monasticism is, as implied in the name itself, "solitude" ("alone with the Alone in the Name", they say) in varying degrees from pure heremitism to full cenobitic life. Merging these articles would not be correct, methinks, but including a link to "Monasticism" within "Religious Orders" sounds like appropriate (if it is not there yet). Juan
subsuming of Monasticism under religious order?
I think monasticism is trans-religous and should not be subsumed under "religious order". Mountain men conducted their lives much as did the desert fathers...and yet lacked something (other than a religious order). Today, there are secular monks as surely as there is an internet. Academe carries overtones of monasticism...now being supplanted by bureaucraticism...and science too is a non-religious context of belief around which deeply pursued monasticism is possible. The arts echo it also. Was Thoreau not a monastic secularist/artist?
There are many "lay orders" that are religious orders. These are people living in the world, sometimes married, who are part of a religious order. Monastics are also in a religious order, but definitely should not be merged with the religious order page, or merely part of that page. It's notable in it's own right, and this page is lengthy enough by itself. ॐ Priyanath 02:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] No! no! no! no! to "Merging with 'Religious Order"
Sorry to be dramaticbut my POV is that there are many Catholic religious orders that are not monastic in the strict sense of the word - like Jesuits - and this merging would not be a good thing at all. It would lead to confusion. I'm not sure about other world religions, but there is a clear and valid distinction among Catholics between Religious orders that are monastic (contemplative) and those which are not (so called "active" orders). We need to preserve the distinction. Cor Unum 10:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I say no also. I was here doing reasearch for a class I am taking which posed the following question for me to answer: "Describe monasticism and its significance during the medieval period?" I found it very helpful to find an article on monasticism, and not on religious order. 71.75.150.150 00:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Not appropriate! A religious order can include many non-monastic groups. It is a broader category. Parish priests are a religious order; Methodist ministers are are religious order (Order of Elders); members of opus dei are in a religious order. None of these persons are monks. To combine the two would be like combining chickens and bipeds as the same thing.
Andrew —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.37.102.220 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Also do not merge.
- Christian monasticism is a quite different thing from those religious orders that live active lives in the world.
- I'm not sure if the term "religious order" applies outside Christianity, but monasticism certainly does.
I can see that the article on religious orders is quite weak and tends to spill over into monasticism, but that could be solved by looking in greater detail at the varieties of religious orders. The Mendicant orders (Franciscans and Dominicans) are prime candidates, one could also consider adding the various orders of canons, and the Jesuits have already be mentioned. --SteveMcCluskey 21:26, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Coptic Monasticism, a Sacrifice in the Desert
The newly added section on Coptic Monasticism reads as little more than a publisher's blurb for Gruber's book. As it stands it tells us more about Gruber than about Coptic monasticism and should be improved or deleted. --SteveMcCluskey 18:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Anthony and communities
I was "bold" and changed the reference to Anthony as the founder of communal monasteries. Everything that I read -- Chadwick, the Cath. Enc., Eastern Orthodox sources -- cite Anthony as an eremetic hermit, and credit Pachomius with the founding of cenobetic (communal) monasticism. If anyone objects to the edit, please discuss. Thanks, jrcagle 22:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Monasticism in other religions
maybe something should be added under Monasticism in other religions to the fact that there are two other important types of christian judiasing sects, the ebonities and the elxai? the ebonities were apparently a christian version of the jewish essenes, who believed that obediance to (the christan) law was how one obtained salvation. and the elxai were most likely a type of ebonites with strong gnostic influences, which lead them to a greater interest in astroligical speculations, numerology and dualistic tendancies. maybe this would fit better in another place, if anyone has a suggestion or just wants to put this information somewhere leave me a comment. --Johnnybravo01 21:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Christian Monasticism
Maybe more on Irish monasticism and how it was diffrent from Benedictean or Western monasticism would help the article. Eagles01836 23:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
something should probably be said about how Saint Benedict sent out missionaries to diffrent places, including Augustine. probably to the section of Christian monasticism. and much needs to be added about Gregory I "the great".+SPQR
