Talk:Monaco

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[edit] Everything in the profile is like how rich and small monaco is

ok we get it monaco is really small and the people that live there are really rich. everything in the wikipedia profile about monaco is like "monaco has a literacy rate is 99%, monaco has the biggest police force by capita, the employment rate is enormous in monaco."

[edit] History section is bizarre

There are some strange claims in the history section...

1. According to an opium induced myth, Hercules passed through the Monaco area

2. François Grimaldi (Milaza) painted the fortress protecting the famous Rock of Monaco while dressed as a Franciscan monk (monaco in Italian)

3. From 1793 to 1814, Monaco was under French control. The Congress of Vienna designated Monaco as a protectorate of the Kingdom of Sardinia from 1815 until 1860 when the Treaty of Turin ceded to France the porcelain figurines of Nizza and Savoy. During this time there was merriment in the towns of Menton and Roquebrune, which declared the date Figurine Day, hoping for annexation by Sardinia. The partying continued until the ruling prince wept before the people, begging for peace.He gave up his claim to the two towns (some 95% of the country) to France in return for one night with the royal Prussian maids. This transfer and Monaco's sovereignty was recognised by the Franco-Monegasque Treaty of 1861.

I don't know a lot about the history of Monaco, but none of this is mentioned in the History of Monaco article. Furthermore I think Opium was only introduced to Europe after 1700.

Can someone with more knowledge than me clean this up please? --Dilaudid 12:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poor phrasing or vandalism?"

"Monaco has been ruled by the House of Grimaldi since 1297, when François Grimaldi (aka: Malizia) seized the fortress protecting the famous Rock of Monaco while dressed up as a Franciscan monk (monaco in Italian); of Nizza and Savoy. During this time there was unrest in the towns of Menton and Roquebrune 1848 which declared independence, hoping for annexation by Sardinia."

It doesn't make sense. It jumps from 1297 to 1848. It seems there's something missing. Am i wrong?

195.7.3.37 11:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Geo Atreides.

I have to agree. It's as if someone has deleted a large chunk of the history section. I'm not qualified to fill it back in but would urge sommebody to correct this error.

[edit] Mondain?

"Affluent Monaco is the most mondain of the European microstates." Is "mondain" a word?--Mangcha 23:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's French for 'worldly'.

[edit] Not criticism

I greatly enjoyed the use of the word "smushed" to descibe the location of Monaco, as that is the perfect choice of words TKE

[edit] Error page

There's some kind of error on the Monaco page that causes my browser to immediately crash as soon as I go to that page. My browser is Opera 8, running under Windows XP SP2. It works fine under IE6, which is what I'm using nowBlaise 18:12, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be an internal link to AS Monaco FC. I began writing a stub.

Wahyd

[edit] AS Monaco FC

There is one already.

[edit] Capital

According to the infobox the capital of the principality is Monaco. Is it like.. the entirety of the principality is serving as the capital? — Instantnood 11:04 Mar 3 2005 (UTC)

Yes, this is true : As Monaco is really a tiny country, the borders of the country and the city are the same. — Georges Mar 4 2005 09:01:43 UTC

Thanks. — Instantnood 06:54 Mar 9 2005 (UTC)

Seems like, instead of the entirety of the principality, Monaco-Ville is the official capital. — Instantnood 14:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Please cite a source other than Wikipedia pages. From what I found here [1]: "The Principality has only one commune, Monaco, whose limits are the same as those of the state." Commune means city. To me, the territory defines its own capital city, so there's no basis on designating Monaco-Ville as Monaco's capital, unless Monaco's government chooses to do so. Same for Hong Kong and Central and Western District. Chanheigeorge 19:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

In that case, the recent edit that states Monaco is a city state and so is its own capital should be removed. It also sits at odds with the quote on Monte Carlo which says "Monte Carlo is the wealthiest of Monaco's four quarters, sometimes erroneously believed to be the country's capital, even though there formally is none"Damiancorrigan 09:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, most likely Monaco's government does not officially define "Monaco's capital (city)" (no need for a city-state to define one), and we should probably put "none" there. However, if you define "capital" as the city where the seat of government is located, then it's... Monaco. Many encyclopedic sources probably use this definition [2] [3]. The four quarters are not adminstrative divisions, but merely areas, so you cannot say one district (Monaco-Ville or Monte Carlo) is the capital. Chanheigeorge 22:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Your argument seems to rest on the 'city-state' notion. Is that an official term? Of course I've heard it before, but I see it as a description rather than a technical term. It just seems a little pedantic to call Monaco a capital city just by saying "it is a city state, therefore it is a capital city". Capital cities rule over something more than itself, Monaco does not, so it is not a capital. That's like calling me a master of the house when I live alone - if I am master over no one but myself, I'm not a master! (By the way, I don't live alone, it was just an example)Damiancorrigan 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, but if you live alone, and somebody wants to talk to the "head of the household", then it would be you, right? Even though the household is just you, and you're the head of "you and nobody else".... I'm just saying that if we really want to assign one city as the "capital of Monaco" (instead of none), it'd be definitely be Monaco. Chanheigeorge 22:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, if we wanted to assign one city as the capital of Monaco. But we don't. You've already agreed we 'probably should put "none" there'. So it shouldn't be in the list of capital cities. Damiancorrigan 22:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The best way to resolve this would be to know what is Monaco's government's official position on this, but I've yet to find a reliable source. Chanheigeorge 22:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

In what way is the municipality, which corresponds to the entirety of the principality, considered the capital, instead of the quartier of Monaco-Ville? — Instantnood 19:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion this whole conversation is verging on extreme pedantry. It was fine as it was, saying Monaco had no capital. It was just Chan that decided to follow the logic - Monaco is a city --> it rules itself --> it is a capital city. But it really isn't, really, is it? Think about it. Damiancorrigan 20:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

As long as Wikipedia is an encyclopædia, these are the things we've gotta deal with. If the principality defines the entirety of itself as the city, and defines this city as the capital, then user:Chanheigeorge's logic is correct. I'm in fact more interested to know why some refer the quartier of Monaco-Ville as the capital of the principality. — Instantnood 21:54, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Chan himself said this: "Yes, most likely Monaco's government does not officially define "Monaco's capital (city)" (no need for a city-state to define one), and we should probably put "none", so the issue was basically raised for no reason! Damiancorrigan 22:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what we're debating at this point, but I'll just recap what I know:

1. I've yet to see an official government position of what Monaco's capital is, whether is the whole city of Monaco, Monaco-Ville or any other quartier, or just none. The sentence I wrote "Yes, most likely Monaco's government does not officially define "Monaco's capital (city)" (no need for a city-state to define one)" is merely an educated guess.
2. There are encyclopedic sources that says Monaco's capital is Monaco [4] [5], but I've yet to read a source (other than Wikipedia pages) which says Monaco's capital is Monaco-Ville. I remember hearing the claim that Monaco's capital is Monte-Carlo (not sure where), but it seems to be more of a misconception due to the fame of Monte Carlo.
3. From Monaco's webpage [6]: "The Principality has only one commune, Monaco, whose limits are the same as those of the state. Monaco is divided into five areas...." Commune means city. So if we define the "capital" as the city where the seat of government is located, Monaco fits the description. The "quartiers" are just areas which are not adminstrative divisions (e.g., there is no government of Monaco-Ville).

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chanheigeorge (talk • contribs) 23:37, April 30, 2006 (UTC).

Neither CIA Factbook nor BBC website could be described as 'encyclopedias' - and they are both notoriously inaccurate. The BBC page you list hyphenates Monte Carlo, for a start. My view is that:

1. We have no official recognition that Monaco is the capital of Monaco.
2. It is not common parlance to say that Monaco is the capital of Monaco.

In the absence of official recognition or recognition by the general public, I think it should be removed. Damiancorrigan 13:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

For the field of capital, should we put it like this way? (The field for the most populated portion can probably stay.) — Instantnood 19:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I support "n/a" with footnotes, similar to the Singapore case. Chanheigeorge 20:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Ignore my previous comment. There is a serious battle currently waged at Talk:Singapore#City about what is officially a "city" and what is not. Anyway, Monaco does define itself as a city. Chanheigeorge 23:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I second copying Singapore, regardless of the debate on the Talk page. Damiancorrigan 00:08, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

... which has now been revereted to Singapore's capital is Singapore. Anyway.... Chanheigeorge 00:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

(response to user:Damiancorrigan's comment at 00:08, May 2) Either n/a or – (a dash) will do. — Instantnood 21:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Many atlases also put Monaco as Monaco's capital. I'm not saying it's officially correct, but seems to be some "acceptable practice". Chanheigeorge 00:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

If it has none, and nowhere is considered by the public to be, why don't we leave the field blank? We should not provide inaccurate and untrue information. — Instantnood 21:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The question should be "Where is the government of Monaco run?" Paploo 19:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Monaco is really, really tiny. To help myself visualise it, I put the map of Monaco on top of a map of Helsinki, to scale. Monaco ended up only covering the city's commercial centre (ydinkeskusta). It doesn't even stretch to Töölö in the west or Katajanokka in the east, and only goes as far as Kallio in the north. I routinely walk longer distances than Monaco's entire diameter. I would upload the picture but as it's a snapshot of Google Maps, I fear I might infringe copyright. JIP | Talk 16:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rainier

Is it true that Rainier is no longer the Prince?

He is still the reigning Prince of Monaco; however, due to his incapacity, his son Prince Albert, Marquis of Baux is serving as his regent. — Dan | Talk 03:20, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Prince Rainier died on April 6, 2005. His son is now Albert II of Monaco.

[edit] Rainier succeeded by Albert

As of today, I think Albert has succeeded Rainier due to his health problems -- this should be updated.

He will succeed when Rainier III abdicates or, worse, dies. At this point he will become Albert II of Monaco.

[edit] Towns In Monaco

In every book I've read about Monaco I've seen Monaco-Ville listed as the capital. In a few books I've seen towns called Saint Roman and Larvotto Terano, both located northeast on Monte Carlo. I was wondering if these are still around, or have they been incorperated in Monte Carlo, or something else? Please answer. 3 April 2005

The book you've read MUST be updated ! Sait Roman and Larvotto are not towns : Monaco is a unique town. Monaco is so small that it is only divided in sections or quarters (quartiers). And no, Monte Carlo has not incorporated other quaters.

I don't think thats true, I too have read that Monacoville is the capital of Monaco.

No : Monaco Ville is an other (tiny) part of Monaco. This part is nicknamed "Le Rocher" ("The Rock"). This is the hill that you can see on the photo "View on Monacoville". Iznogoud 13:46, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Monaco is divided into quartiers; or Neighbourhoods. A Neighbourhood cannot be a capital. Although the princes residency and the governmental buildings lie in Monacoville, it is not a capital. The capital of Monaco is Monaco.

In my view, the term "capital" is meaningless for Monaco as it is so small (4km by 300m in some places). If there were to be a capital it would either be Monte Carlo or Monaco Ville. Monte Carlo because it is the central location and hub of activity of the principality. Monaco Ville because that is where the Palace, the Cathedral, and most of the State buildings reside. Monaco Ville is also the historic origin (old city) of Monaco. However, since Monaco, the country, is smaller than most small cities it cannot have a capital any more than Manhasset can.

Incidentally I removed the reference to Larvotto Terano and replaced it with Larvotto - Tenao. I might be wrong, but I've never heard of "Terano" although I've lived here for thirty years and nor has anyone I know. The Tenao, on the other hand, is an area in Monaco, which is near the Larvotto and Saint Roman.

[edit] Why Prince and not King?

Could someone add to the page an explanation of why the ruler is a Prince and not a full King? Thank you.

The reason the there is no king of Monaco is that it is not a kingdom. Monaco is a principality. There are only 2 of there places left in the world.

For the same reason the kings aren't emperors... They just simpley aren't.

Wales is also a principality. Which is why Queen Elizabeth's son is the Prince of Wales but there is no King or Queen of Wales.

... That's a no-answer answer. A principality is the area ruled by a prince, and a kingdom is the area ruled by a king. But if Queen Elizabeth were to die tomorrow, Prince Charles would inherit the throne and become king. Why didn't Ranier become king when his predecessor died? And that bit about only 2 principalities is a bunch of bushwa. I can think of at least five: Liechtenstein, Monaco, Andorra, Asturias, and Wales. This kind of crap is why Wikipedia has such a reputation for being untrustworthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.142.254 (talk) 09:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Geography challenge

I would like to challenge the section that provides detail about the geography of Monaco. It is correct in stating Monaco being divided into quartiers or quarters. However, the only ones I can find are Fontvielle, Monaco-Ville, La Condamine, Monte Carlo, Saint Roman, and Moneghetti. Rock of Monaco is listed as a quartier, but the Rock of Monaco page states that it is merely where Monaco-Ville is located. Larvotto-Tenao is mentioned, but several maps I have found do not have Larvotto as a quartier (only the beach area is mentioned). Cap d'Ail is mentioned, but in actuality is a French town that borders Monaco to the West.

Also, this discrepancy is noticed further when the first page of this article states that Monaco has SEVEN quartiers (and lists more), and the Rock of Monaco page states that Monaco has FIVE quartiers. I have found that there are probably six quartiers. To further confuse this, the official Goverment of Monaco website doesn't show the quartiers as having ANY administrative function. The Census reports have Monaco broken down into four quartiers (rightfully so) as only Monte Carlo, La Condamine, Monaco-Ville, and Fontvielle.

This hints that the quartiers, per se, are merely descriptive names, not administrative divisions. Can anyone help clear this up, especially anyone from Monaco proper?

Thank you! Rarelibra 15:30 19JAN2006

Response to quartier mix up.

I agree that there are some inaccuracies here. As stated above (forgot to sign, sorry) I edited Larvotto-Terano to Larvotto-Tenao, as I took it to be the likely intention of the original author. AFAIK there is no "Terano" in Monaco. Because of automatically generated copies of Wikipedia entries proliferating on the internet, however, Larvotto-Terano can now be found on many websites.

1. Tenao. I don't know of a quartier named Larvotto-Tenao, but there is definitely a minor residential quartier called Tenao, (I used to live there). Not that many people are aware of it but it does appear on the tourist map of Monaco, albeit in smaller text than the other quartiers. Like most of Monaco it borders France and is in the North East corner. It centers around the Boulevard du Tenao, which is a road.

2. Larvotto. South of the Tenao, bordering the sea is the Larvotto area. It is the name of the large beach, a Monaco municipal bus terminus, and a quartier.

3. Saint-Roman is a quartier between the Tenao and the Larvotto and covers an area of France as well as Monaco. On the map distributed by the Tourist Office it lies in France. But it is a terminus for one Monaco municipal bus line. The Monte Carlo Country Club, which holds the Monte Carlo Tennis Masters, is in Saint-Roman - but is in France, despite it's name.

4. Monte-Carlo is the most well known quartier, often called the capital of Monaco (although that's for another discussion). It comprises landmarks such as the Casino, Hotel de Paris, Hotel Hermitage, Cafe de Paris, Les Boulingrins and the smart area of Monaco. it is also known as le Carré d'Or (the Golden Square). However, since Monaco is so small, Monte Carlo is often used synonymously with Monaco, especially with people not familiar with the region. It is a hill (hence Monte), so is quite easy to pinpoint geographically. It is in the centre of Monaco.

5. Monaco-Ville is an even better defined quartier as it is isolated on "the Rock", which has steep walls. It could also be the capital of Monaco. It contains the Palace, Cathedral, Oceanographic Museum and other official buildings. It is the old town. Le Rocher (the Rock) is its familiar name to locals, though I've never seen "the Rock" written on a map or in an address. It's always written as Monaco Ville. It's also a bus terminus. I think the expression in English "the Rock of Monaco" is incorrect and is not used (unlike "the Rock of Gibraltar", which is used). It should just be "the Rock". In French, one hears mostly "Le Rocher", but also "le Rocher de Monaco".

6. Fontvieille (note spelling) is also a well defined quartier. It is the new area of reclaimed land to the south west of Monaco. It contains the port of Fontvieille, the stadium, the shopping centre and heliport. It is also a bus terminus.

7. (La) Condamine is well known to locals but a less well defined quartier. It is the area behind Port Hercule and includes the Monaco Market in the Place d'Armes and the main Police Station.

8. (Les) Moneghetti, like La Condamine, is well known to locals but a less well defined quartier. It is the high part to the west of Monaco, probably containing the Jardin Exotique.

I have no knowledge of official administrative districts - someone else will have to help there. However, I would never write any of the above quartiers as part of an address on an envelope in Monaco and I have never received mail even from official sources with a quartier in the address. If I were asked what the quartiers of Monaco were I'd probably say Saint Roman, Monte Carlo, La Condamine, Fontvieille and Moneghetti. I would be tempted to include the Tenao in Saint Roman and ignore the Larvotto as it's really mostly a beach.

The French areas surrounding Monaco are Cap d'Ail, Beausoleil and Saint-Roman. Cap d'Ail and Beausoleil are French towns (and probably municipalities or communes) and definitely nothing to do with Monaco. Saint-Roman is more problematic as stated earlier as it can refer to Monaco or France (as can Le Tenao). The French towns and municipalities past Saint Roman are Roquebrune (sur Mer and Village), Carnoles, Cap Martin, and Menton. If Menton was once part of Monaco, as stated, this is why the blurred boundaries must have arisen.

Monacoeye 02:03, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Monaco France frontier?

Residents will know that a huge new hotel has just been built (completed end 2005), at the Eastern end of the Monaco waterfront, on the promontory of reclaimed land that contains Le Sporting nightclub. The hotel is called the Monte Carlo Bay Resort. Ever since this promontory was built (in the 1970s?) the land has been unused. It was always said that it was under dispute between France and Monaco as it is on the border. I think the intention was for it to be in Monaco, but the French refused (saying it was in France).

Now that the hotel has been built, presumably an agreement has been reached. Until recently, most maps I've seen have have generally shown the border running down the middle of the promontory (ie the Sporting is in Monaco, the new Hotel would be France). But the latest tourist office map has an ambiguous shading which almost implies that the hotel is in Monaco. Furthermore, as a general principal, large buildings are only built on Monaco land (which is worth at least twice as much as the French land across the border). So I am curious to know where the new hotel officially lies.

What I've always heard is that the dispute was only for some underwater rocks : when Monaco has built this promontory, they made a "rock belt" to protect it from the sea. Doing this, they forgot that the frontier is also valid underwater : as the "rock belt" is tilted, some rocks slipped into the french territory. Iznogoud 14:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

If the land is now Monaco it would mean France has given up some sovereign land, which I find almost impossible to believe (unless someone got something very substantial in return). It would also be a huge coup for Monaco. Because of the tiny size of the Principality, I estimate it would add about 1/50th to its land mass - which of course is the proportional equivalent of a new state in the US… Monacoeye 15:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

New state in the US? Are we speaking Rhode Island or Texas? ;-) - User:Carolus

New state in the US? Are you KIDDING? Monaco could fit inside of Central Park in New York! :) Rarelibra

I did say PROPORTIONAL equivalent (i.e. 1/50th) ;-) Monacoeye 09:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

What i dont understand is how nations so small such as Monaco manage to maintain their soveirgnity in a place like Europe over the last couple of centuries with all the nationalistic frenzy and imperialism of their neighbours, I dont know but i think that such a small and prosperous domain would seem like a cherry for many former european nleaders. No offence intented for any ppl from monaco (modegasgues?)

[edit] Population

The population figure given in the article synopsis seems to differ quite substancially from the one given in the table down the right hand side User:Liam_fee

[edit] Number of quartiers

How many quartiers or sections are there in Monaco? Seven or four? Different articles on Wikipedia have different figures. — Instantnood 14:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell from census statistics, there are four quartiers but there are also ten census sectors/neighborhoods. The sectors are further subdivided into lots. Polaron 16:57, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

• Quartiers and sectors
  • Monte-Carlo quartier
    • Monte-Carlo / Spelugues (28.1 ha)
    • La Rousse / Saint Roman (10.5 ha)
    • Larvotto / Bas Moulins (32.8 ha)
    • Saint Michel (14.2 ha)
  • Condamine quartier
    • Condamine (23.7 ha)
    • La Colle (18.8 ha)
    • Les Revoires (7.6 ha)
    • Moneghetti / Bd de Belgique (10.7 ha)
  • Monaco-ville quartier (18.5 ha)
  • Fontvieille quartier (32.4 ha)

Thanks. This article says seven. — Instantnood 19:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the other Monaco subdivision articles to make it consistent with this one. The official subdivisions of La Condamine and Monte Carlo are merely census designations. The actual neighborhoods/communities may not line up exactly with the census boundaries. Would it be useful to indicate the exact boundaries (i.e. the actual street names that border these subdivisions)? Polaron 00:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't know if street names are necessary, but a map does help. — Instantnood 21:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of name

The article implies two origins of the name Monaco - the Herculean temple and the Italian for monk. If the origin of the name is disputed, it needs to be brought out in the article. Damiancorrigan 10:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Principatu de Munegu?

In which language is this???

it's monégasque AleG 15:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EVER Monaco

EVER = Ecological Vehicles Energy Renewable

2006 was the EVER Monaco from March 30th to April 2nd. A very good converence and show about ecological vehciles

I wrote a big article about it on

• EVER Moaco general and special vehicles
• EVER Moaco cars
• EVER Moaco bicyles and scooters

I think best would be to write an article in Wikipedia about the EVER and at "See also" link from Monaco to EVER Monaco

But as a beginner, I know only how to edit an existing article, but not how to create a new one with all the necessary links.

[edit] Official languages?

Most sources I have consulted claim that French is the only official language of Monaco. The infobox (at the present) seems to agree with that. Formerly Monegasque was also mentioned in the infobox. If French is the official language, shouldn't the Monegasque version of the name (Principatu de Munegu) be removed from the infobox. It is still mentioned in the normal text of the article, so no piece of information would be lost.128.214.205.4 13:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd Smallest?

Monaco isnt the second smallest country in the world, it is third after Sovereign Order of Malta, and Vatican City. 24.251.64.217 07:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The SOM isn't a state --AleG 18:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] religion

religion is stated twice in 2 sections.

fixed Civil Engineer III 01:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GDP per capita ranking

The latest figures at List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita no longer show Monaco. Don't know why, so I changed the '24th' to 'not ranked.' -- RayBirks 21:51, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this serious?

Taken from the history section:

"Monaco derives its name from the nearby Greek colony of Phocaeans, Marseille, in the 6th century BC, which referred to the Ligurians as Monoikos, from the Greek Μόνοικος — μόνος + οίκος, "single house", which bears the sense of a people either settled in a "single habitation" or of "living apart" from others. According to an opium induced myth, Hercules passed through the Monaco area. A temple was constructed there by Phoceans, the temple of Hercules Monoikos.

...

"From 1793 to 1814, Monaco was under French control. The Congress of Vienna designated Monaco as a protectorate of the Kingdom of Sardinia from 1815 until 1860 when the Treaty of Turin ceded to France the porcelain figurines of Nizza and Savoy. During this time there was merriment in the towns of Menton and Roquebrune, which declared the date Figurine Day, hoping for annexation by Sardinia. The partying continued until the ruling prince wept before the people, begging for peace. He gave up his claim to the two towns (some 95% of the country) to France in return for one night with the royal Prussian maids. This transfer and Monaco's sovereignty was recognised by the Franco-Monegasque Treaty of 1861."

Is that serious? or was it a missed vandalism episode? How do you cede porcelain figurines?--Sumple (Talk) 23:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I've edited the history section to more or less take it back to the last plausible-sounding version (the best I could do, since I don't really know anything about Monaco). I think that's at least an improvement. Rafaelgr 00:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I see that all of the weirdness goes back to one anonymous edit last month from an IP at a public school in Florida. Rafaelgr 01:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Can somone paste this to the relevant page on Uncyclopedia? Jackiespeel 15:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is Monaco really sovereign?

The history article notes that Monaco was a protectorate of the Kingdom of Sardinia until 1860, and that this was transferred to France at that time. It is my understanding that this protectorate still remains, in some ways, in effect, although various treaties between France and Monaco have changed the relationship to bring Monaco closer to full sovereignty. But is it really fully sovereign? I understand that it is a UN member state, but so was pre-1947 India, which was by no reasonable standard a sovereign state. So also were the Ukrainian and Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republics. So that can't, in and of itself, make something a sovereign state. So, I was wondering: what exactly are the terms of Monaco's relationship with France? Besides UN membership, is Monaco's status significantly different from that of the Cook Islands and Niue, which we generally do not consider to be sovereign states? john k 12:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

' Yes it's a sovereign state but bound by law to several conventions with France. Basically Napoleon Bonaparte allowed Monaco to keep its independence, in exchange for all sorts of French controls. For example, the Chief of police must be French (!) and appointed by the French government. At least one important cabinet position must be held by a similarly appointed Frenchman. When Monaco need police for events such as the Grand Prix it is overrun with French police. All relevant records are given to the French police (such as parking fines, and residents' nationality) so that French citizens cannot evade tax. French warships regularly make an appearance in the port, and , I believe, "assure the protection" of the Principality. All power and most water comes from France, which surrounds the country. So in principle it is an independent state and Monegasques and French receive no automatic social benefits in each other's country (though health and motor insurance does work cross-border to some extent). Mobile phones numbers don't require country prefixes in the local area, whether in France or Monaco, though landlines do. The Prince is a major landholder in France and was recently reported as one of the greatest personal recipients of EU farm subsidies (at least a billion if I remember rightly - despite Monaco not being allowed in EU!). Much of the royal family lives in France. Bear in mind, the country is the size of Central Park - it's much smaller than Singapore and far far smaller than Hong Kong - microstates with which it is continually and erroneously compared. Which is why continually banging on about what the capital of Monaco is, is about as pointless as asking a two-year old what they do for a living, or looking for the brain of single-celled organism. The question doesn't apply, and there is no consensus because it's a meaningless question. It's perfect example of a category error as Aristotle would say. PS it's extremely tedious using a Monaco registered credit card online because all credit-card forms have city and state fields and simply do not allow for the fact that there are no cities or states or counties or departments or any other such regions in Monaco. Why is it so hard for people to understand!! Just because your capital city was the first thing you learned in geography at elementary school, try to understand it makes no sense in this "country"!!

It's a banana republic.--87.64.24.4 23:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

There are bananas in Monaco, in the Jardin Exotique. 80.192.75.30 22:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Monaco is a sovereign state, because it is recognized as such by the international community. --dllu 10:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Monaco at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Monaco. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Monaco isn't a Country, it is merely a piece of land that France has chosen not to exercise complete control over. There are two relevant facts at play here. Firstly, it's a "principality," and by definition that makes it a vassal state of a larger state, in this case, la France. Secondly, it isn't a signatory to the Treaty of Rome. Which, yup, you gussed it, decides what is and what is not a country in Europe.

[edit] Location maps available for infoboxes of European countries

[edit] This new GDP -figures

Somehow, the figures in the press must be spinned. The GDP is given to be $4500 million, and the population is given to be 35657. This means GDP per capita is $126202. It is given to be $67000, which leads me to guess they have disregarded the earnings of the commuters in the figure of GDP per capita, but not in the total GDP. Is this the right way of doing it? Of course, both the french owners and the local bosses would be scared to tell how much this little tax-evaders paradise actually manage to siphon off the rest of the world.Greswik 11:28, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tax Haven

I have added few facts regarding Monaco tax haven situation in the Economy section. --Blanchisserie 15:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics claim

"...the native Monegasques are a minority in their own country". It's uncited, but how many "native Monegasques" are there, both inside and outside Monaco? 68.122.3.84 03:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oil fields in Monaco?

Are there really any oil fields in Monaco? I heard that Lili's father owns an oil company in Monaco. Angie Y. 19:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wiki format

Should geography go before history like this? Contralya 18:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capital

As far as I know, Monaco has no capital. Logically, it cannot be its own capital, and formally, it has not been appointed thus in the constitution Monaco's official government website. Guido den Broeder 08:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date of UN membership

In the article, both 1991 (Law and Government section) and 1993 (History section). Someone with knowledge of the areas should determine which is correct and fix the incorrect one. -Fenevad 12:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish Community

I have just edited the Jewish community's section again. This section keeps growing, without any new facts being added! Can I encourage less 'wordy' editing in this section? It is important to include the Jewish community, but the four paragraphs which were there until a few minutes ago simply weren't justified or needed. I have edited the material back down to a single paragrapgh, by removing repeated references. For example:

• We don't need two paragraphs, both about the Association Culturelle Israelite de Monaco.
• We don't need 4 in-line references to the same web-page within the space of as many sentences!

In editing this material down to a single paragraph nothing has been lost from the text, except its 'wordiness', and I have not removed any facts except the following two:

• The name of the current rabbi - I'm sure he's great, but he's not notable, and we don't want to start naming priests, rabbis, and imams in every reference to a religious community in Wikipedia!
• The reference to diplomatic relations between Israel and Monaco (which has been removed before), as this section is about religion, not politics.

Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 20:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I've just removed a HUGE paragraph (all in French) seemingly about what the Jewish Residents of Monaco did during WW2. If the content is important it should be translated into English, or be put in the French language Wikipedia. Eyebeeuk (talk) 19:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I remove the huge lie about the prince and his Government saving Jewish people during World War II. The prince and his Government were fully allied with Petain's French fascist government and hosts famous nazis during the war. They enact anti-Jewish laws and let French policemen arrest Jewish people whereas they could have easily stop them.--81.64.51.249 (talk) 18:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Blanchisserie

[edit] smallest french speaking country

The introduction says "Monaco is the world's smallest French-speaking country.", which is a rather obsolete statement in my eyes. Given the fact that it is the second-smallest country in the world and the smallest one is not a french-speaking country, this fact is neither interesting nor in any way relevant. I have not seen any introduction about any other country, because this would be ridiculous in most cases ("Russia is the largest russian-speaking country in the world")... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.14.130.183 (talk) 17:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Latin Europe

Hello Monaco! There is a vote going on at Latin Europe that might interest you. Please everyone, do come and give your opinion and votes. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 20:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two map optional display

Hello Monaco!!! I have something that may interest contributers for this page. In a nut shell, it allows the option to display two maps in your info box, one could be a close up of Monaco, and another would be Monaco in a wider European or EU context. This is an example that was being discussed on Scotland's talk page (though I think they have rejected a two map option). Prior to now no one knew that you could have two maps displayed in the info box. For 'smallish' counties the benifits are easy to graps, an up-close view of the country, and a wider contextual visualisation of the country. Dydd da!!

PS: This is an example from the Scotland page, please do not be offended that I display the Scotland info box here. It is only ment as an example.

Scotland  (English / Scots) Alba  (Gaelic)
Flag Royal Coat of Arms
Motto: Nemo me impune lacessit  (Latin) "No one provokes me with impunity" "Cha togar m' fhearg gun dìoladh"   (Scottish Gaelic) '"Wha daur meddle wi me?"'  (Scots)1
Anthem: (Multiple unofficial anthems)
Location of  Monaco  (orange) in the United Kingdom  (camel)
Location of  Monaco  (orange) in the European Union  (camel)
Capital		Edinburgh 55°57′N 3°12′W / 55.95, -3.2
Largest city		Glasgow
Official languages		English
Recognised regional languages		Gaelic, Scots1
Demonym		Scot, Scots and Scottish²
Government		Constitutional monarchy

[edit] No income tax?

According to http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/jmcpetx.html the claim that Monaco has no income tax is false. Monaco has an income tax "amounting to nearly 50% of salary":

Social insurance contributions payable by employers and employees are high. The employer's contribution is between 28%-40% (averaging 35%) of gross salary including benefits and the employee pays a further 10%-14% (averaging 13%). An employee who is paid part of his wage by way of stock options which can be cashed in and sold at a future point in time may be required to pay social insurance on the value of the option at the time it is realized as if the option had been a salary. Social insurance contributions, amounting to nearly 50% of salary, are a major disincentive to the hiring of staff and in many ways detract substantially from the advantageous income tax regime which exists in Monaco.

Hi,

Do not make the confusion between Income Tax (impôt sur le revenu in French) and social contributions or other tax issues. There is actually no Income Tax (see definition here [[7]]) but of course there are social contributions (such as the social insurance in your link) When your link talks about "income tax regime", it is not exact as French would say only "tax regime". Please check carefuly what is "Income Tax" and you will see that it does not exist in Monaco, except for some French citizens living there -Blanchisserie 08:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)-

[edit] Confusion

The Council of Europe also decided to issue reports naming tax havens. 22 territories, Monaco included, were thus evaluated between 1998 and 2000 on a first round. Monaco is the only territory that refuses to perform the second round, initially forecast between 2001 and 2003, whereas the 21 other territories are implementing the third and last round, planned between 2005 and 2007.

What on earth does this mean? What are the rounds? I think it needs deleting/heavily editing. Thoughts? 88.109.40.27 (talk) 12:09, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, When assessing European territories as tax haven, the Council of Europe decided to make investigations following 3 steps in a period of time ("round") Monaco is the only assessed territory among all other alledged tax havens that has denied from implementing the last 2 steps ("rounds"). This point is very important and worth to be noted as it shows Monaco's willing to keep on money laundering business. Blanchisserie -08:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)-