Talk:Monacan

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View comments (edit) lengthy stub, needs expansion, formatting and separate language article if possible. -- Skookum1 (12 May 06) (Comments migrated by Pfly, June 22, 2007) Pfly 04:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Can we get confirmation that there was no identification of pre-1980's Amherst County Indians as Monacan? -- Hooponopono 02:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

There is no way to prove a negative. The fact that there is no evidence of any Monacan ID prior to Houck's book should be sufficient.Verklempt 04:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

There is, IN FACT, much historical confirmation regarding pre-1980's Amherst County (and others) Indians as Monacan. The Monacan Nation is the historical confederation (past and present) designation given to the tribes in the area by the Europeans settlers. Historically, Indian tribes of this region and others did not refer to themselves as other than, "The People", or "Our People". Tribal names were given, by others, as a way to delineate the various people in a given area. The Monacan Confederation originally consisted of the Tutelo, Manahoac, Saponi, Sara, and Monacan proper. Likewise, our Brothers, the Powhatan Confederacy, was made up of the Powhatans proper, Arrohatecks, Appamattucks, Pamunkeys, Mattaponis and Chiskiacks. The Treaties of Middle Plantation and Albany were both either signed by or created for the benefit of these tribes. As well, the major reason that "identification" of these tribes has not been deseminated to the general public is the apartheid legilation created by the State of Virginia in the 19th and 20th Centuries. It was against the LAW for one to indentify themself as INDIAN. It was against the LAW for a "White" person to marry a "Colored" person, etc., etc., etc. Finally, the Monacan and Powhatan people have lived in these areas since the beginning of European record-keeping. They never left the area as other tribes have, i.e., the Tuscarroras, (who joined the Five Nations) and others. Also, there is the fact that the Federal Government allowed the State of Virgiia (against the Constitution) to continue to utilize its sovereign powers over the tribes to this very day. Therefore, while there are two reservations, as treatied by the State, there were no Federal Treaties with the Virginia Indians.

This is an encylopedia. Reliable sources are required to substantiate arguments. Many of your contentions are factually incorrect.Verklempt 20:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Are we letting a little POV slip in here? "apartheid" . . . "unconstitutional" VirginiaProp 14:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I expect a little more, in an intellectual discussion, than "many of your contentions are factually incorrect". Could you please educate me as to the contention(s) that are incorrect according to your research? Also, which assertion(s) would you like to dispel? As for POV, perhaps you could correct me and explain how the terms are not descriptive of the circumstance.

Monacan2122 18:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Speculative conspiracy theory is not encyclopedic. Assertions that remain unsubstantiated by reliable sources are not encyclopedic.Verklempt 23:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)