Talk:Molise Croats

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also the previous discussion at Talk:Slavic_peoples#Gradisce/Burgenland,_Molise,_etc

Someone explain how those numbers don't at least include the Croats from Molise... blech. --Shallot 23:01, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Molise Serbs also includes people who are Serbian Orthodox living in Italy, who can trace there ancestry to Serbia in the 15th and 16th century. These numbers does not include croats from Molise. --Slav

There's still no substantiation to this name or the claims laid out in the article. In fact, the first external link rejects the notion that the Molise people are Serbs! Something just ain't right here, either with the name or with the content. --Shallot 19:52, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

The number of those people considered Molise (Slavs|Croats|whathaveyou) in the three villages in the Molise region is shown at this page and it seems to roughly match the total population stats for the same places here. Are there some other three villages with 2000 people in the Molise region that are inhabited by Serbs? Or are you just pulling my leg? --Shallot 20:10, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] No original research

The concept of "Molise Slavs" is breaking the Wikipedia rule of "no original research", since the existing literature overwhelmingly prefers "Molise Croats". You can't promote your pet theories here, but accept what is considered general knowledge. --Zmaj 15:09, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Totally disputed

  • studied Slavic languages in the 1970s and evaded the curse of the midget language

First of all what the hell is "the midget language", is that a pejorative attack?

  • The Molise Croats are all Catholic.

Second of all, prove that all Molise Croats are Catholic.

This article is in dire need of NPOV'ing and sourcing. - FrancisTyers 17:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Dear all, here are some sources:

More to come... Kubura 13:03, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

None of those address the disputed sections. - FrancisTyers 16:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Francis, are you a bigger Croat than Croats themselves? Do you understand Croatian? Kubura 10:55, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't, but then neither do our readers. If you could point me to specific sections of text I can get them translated by a Croatian speaker. - FrancisTyers 14:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Then, if you don't know Croatian, how can you say that something is not enough proof (that it is Croatian)? You don't recognize linguistic features that appear among Molise Croats, that are same as those among coastal Croats (and appear only among Croats). Kubura 15:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Dispute? Here. Open the Italian site, made by Molise Croats, www.mundimitar.it, it is mentioned above. Look down, you'll see the links that show 2 versions of site, in Italian and in Croatian language. Is that enough? Is enough for you that Molise Croats were accepted scientific fact during times of Yugoslavia? Kubura 15:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Did you even read what I am disputing? - FrancisTyers 15:52, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Francis, is it better now? I've fixed the link under "see also" according to vote on Talk:Molise Croatian dialect. Kubura 08:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

If you meant that those two lines are matter of dispute ("midget language", "all Catholic") than say: lines, not the entire article. Otherwise, you're misleading us. Bye, Kubura 08:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I think this article should be scrapped entirely and re-written from scratch. Mihovil

I don't understand your ethnic verbal fight for just 2000 old-Croat speakers. They are now Italian, that's all! - Frank Pech —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.4.122.84 (talk • contribs) 09:43, 13 August 2006

Frank Pech: of course they are all citizens of Italy. But some of them declare as Croats by nationality, or at least, of Croat origins.
Italian law says that, all those references tell that, and now you, out of nowhere, come and shout paroles. Please, don't skip the discussion. Rather read previously posted materials on discussion page and on the main page of the article. Don't send inflammatory messages. We don't need that. Kubura 16:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Related Ethnic Groups

Would not the Molise Croats also be related to ethnic Italians as well or have they had not any Italian admixture??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.147.211 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 12 July 2007

It wouldn't matter if they did. I'm sure that all regions in which there is more than one declared ethnic group, people will have mixed. Who you become depends upon whose influence is the greater. The Molise Croats are few but they exist; no question many local Italians will have Croat ancestry and vice-versa, but because the Slavic language has survived, the people carry the identity with it. To that end, one sees related people as those descended from their linguistic ancestors, so this means the Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Slovenes and the rest of the nations across the Adriatic. As for biological relationships, these details change gradually as one moves away: obviously a Molise Italian will be closer related to his Croat neighbour than to a fellow Italian in Turin or Palermo. Evlekis 11:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Molise Slavs are either Croats or Serbs, it's all the SAME.

The following link is to an article, which confirms that Molise 'Croats' called themselves 'Molise Serbs' in the 19th century, when the first scientific contact with them was made. Also, the article, which is in Serbocroatian, confirms that by the talk with them it's now known fact that when the Molise Serbs fled their lands in Dalmatia and settled in Molise, Italy (in 16 century), the South Slavs were not obsessively devided into 'Croats'(Catholics) and 'Serbs(Orthodox), but they were rather all 'Slavs'. If it wasn't for the psycho-phanatic croatian nationalistic propaganda from 20th century, they would have still called themselves-SLAVS (Zlavi), which many of them still do. The article above explains why the Molise Slavs should be equally called 'Croats' or 'Serbs', because at the end of the ends it is, and will always be-the SAME thing. Cheers, http://www.srpsko-nasledje.co.yu/sr-l/1998/03/article-17.html 24.86.110.10 (talk) 05:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)