Talk:Mohammed Bouyeri

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[edit] Terrorist Label

I wish to comment on the use of the Terrorist label on this man.


This man was a murderer but was not a terrorist any more than the man who killed John lennon was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.129.230 (talk • contribs) 12:11, 2005 July 11

I took the following text from the terrorism page, lets see if mister Bouyeri can be "labelled" as a terrorist ;


21st century definitions (terrorism) of the word range very widely. They typically involve some subset of the following criteria:

  • The motive is political or religious ( This is obvious, Bouyeri is a religious fundamentalist and he was "acting" in the name of Islam)
More like the Wahabbi death-cult that pretends to be Islam.
  • The target is civilian ( Theo van Gogh was a civilian)
  • The objective is to intimidate (I suggest you read the letter that was left on mr van Goghs corpse)
  • The intimidation is directed at government or society ( See above)
  • The perpetrator is non-governmental (Bouyeri was not even remotely involved, or in contact with any government)
  • The act was unlawful (duh)

--

Well actually, he was convicted for perfoming an act of terror. So that makes him a terrorist, someone who murders someone is also a murderer.--Soyweiser 13:59, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Obviously the object of terrorism is to terrorize some people into doing or not doing something - like e.g. giving special attention and privileges to a group of people or not daring to critizise them.

BTW. if someone wants to make a psychological profile of this guy (and other young islamist/takfiri radicalists) perhaps this might be of interest:

Of Bouyeri, the Telegraaf writes that he “has a sickening sexual interest. Together with his ‘brothers’, he enjoyed CD-ROMs where one can see how to amputate male genitals. On his laptop he also had illegal images of a man having sex with a dead woman.” According to the paper, “Mohammed B. was aroused by gruesome amputations and sex with a dead woman.” The Secret Life of Mohammed Bouyeri

History tells us that many terrorists or radicals are in fact petty criminals and/or sexual deviants who have merely found a religious or political disguise for their disgusting activities. --BirgerLangkjer 14:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Snuff Films

I removed the following passage because it was unsourced. He was wrong to kill Theo Van Gogh but Wikipedia is not the place to make this terrible and possibly libelous statement without citing the source properly :

'He also reportedly became virtually ecstatic when he watched snuff films.' --Godfinger 12:54, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to insert it again if you find it important to leave out, but actually this is pretty much taken directly from the first citation:
"Mohammed el Morabit, a Moroccan member of the Hofstadgroup, who was not among the fanatics, told his Dutch interrogators that Mohammed Bouyeri became virtually ecstatic when he watched horrifying snuff films. In Bouyeri's house, a CD-rom was found with films showing images like the public amputation of a penis and sex with a dead female body." Rune X2 15:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
To be frank, it would not surprise me that it might be true as this guy seemed seriously disturbed. But as it's wikipedia policy to avoid libelous remarks it would be wise to be careful what one says in biographies. Obviously it is a case that aroused strong feelings and one might be tempted to ascribe all sorts of terrible things to this man but in the interests of accuracy we should only report what is truly sourced .In this case you appear to be correct so if you want to put it back then I wont object-but it definately needs to be properly cited-maybe as a quote perhaps or something --Godfinger 16:05, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual fetishism

This section has been repeatedly been removed by a number anonymous editors and now by FayssalF, however there should be a discussion on talk pages before removing cited material.

The sexual fetishism of Mohammed Bouyeri as well as his fondness for snuff films, is well attested and much attention has been given to these aspects. Including a number of Muslims arguing, that Mohammed Bouyeri wasn't in the least moved by Islam, but just using it as a flimsy cover for his real interests. The section is merited in the article on account of it giving some background to the man in question, and perhaps giving some kind of possible answer to what his reasons for killing van Gogh.

a Moroccan member of the Hofstadgroup, who was not among the fanatics, told his Dutch interrogators that Mohammed Bouyeri became virtually ecstatic when he watched horrifying snuff films. In Bouyeri's house, a CD-rom was found with films showing images like the public amputation of a penis and sex with a dead female body. Bouyeri also tried to decapitate Theo van Gogh with a big knife, at which point he discovered that it was not so easy. In the months or weeks before the murder, he had tried to perfect his decapitation technique on one or more stolen sheep. A book on Zarqawi was also found in Bouyeri's house, the notorious Jordanian Al-Qaeda terrorist who introduced the terror cult of decapitation to .

Terror on Trial: First hand report on the Hofstadgroep trial by Emerson Vermaat[1]

Indeed it does not. In a shocking set of revelations, the ’ daily, De Telegraaf, has reported that Mohammed Bouyeri and his associates in the Hofstadgroep used radical Islamism to hide the fact that their group was actually a “sexual cult.” In a report titled “Preaching and Porno,” the paper went on to recount the story of the Islamist “lover boys” who clothed their lurid sexual preferences in the garb of religious extremism. The group was inclined to a vast array of depraved activities, not the least disturbing of which was the sexual abuse of young women. The group also reportedly had a penchant for marrying young women, most of whom were native Dutch and had converted to Islam. Bouyeri and his co-religionists would use them as “porn princesses,” before abandoning them after two weeks. “has a sickening sexual interest. Together with his ‘brothers’, he enjoyed CD-ROMs where one can see how to amputate male genitals. On his laptop he also had illegal images of a man having sex with a dead woman.” According to the paper, “Mohammed B. was aroused by gruesome amputations and sex with a dead woman.”

The Secret Life of Mohammed Bouyeri[2]

etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rune X2 (talk • contribs) 13:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I just considered your reverts w/o using the edit summary a bit odd. By the way Rune X2, do you have a source for the " Including a number of Muslims arguing, that Mohammed Bouyeri wasn't in the least moved by Islam". If you have it it would be good as all we need in Wikipedia is balance (NPOV). -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 14:04, 12 September 2007 (UTC)