Talk:Modoc

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This isn't right. It'd be like the article for Mexico redirecting to Mexican American War. I'll get a stubby article about the Modoc up in a little bit. Gentgeen 08:38, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I think only the tribes in those states that don't have a Category:Native Americans tribes in XX, should be in the main category Category:Native American tribes. That is how most other categories are sorted. If there is a difference with the native tribes articles, could you show me where it has been discussed? Thanks! Katr67 00:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

This is aimed mostly at RhymeNotStutter, who reverted my category cleanup, though it fits in with what Katr67 asked about above.
Normal usage for categories, as shown at Wikipedia:Categorization#Some general guidelines, third bullet, is that, while there are exceptions, articles generally should not be placed in both a category and any parent/grandparent/etc category of the first category. All categories above the first are automatically implied by the placement in the first category. So, unless you can describe why this article should qualify as an exception, then it does not belong in any of the state categories, because all those categories, as well as the main tribes category, are implied by the presence of the Modoc tribe category. Whether it's intuitive or not to you, that is how categories work here on the project.
In the end, the goal I'm currently working towards is to depopulate, as much as possible, Category:Native American tribes by either clearing it off of articles already in subcategories, or pushing the articles down into the subcategories myself. Category:Native American tribes had well over 400 articles when I started working on it yesterday. I've got it down to a bit above 200 by doing the easy stuff, finding those already in the sub-cats. Now I just have the harder task of pushing as many of the remainder down into the sub-cats as I can. - TexasAndroid 16:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi. My message above was in response to this edit. I can see both both RhymeNotStutter's and TexasAndroid's points in the more recent matter. You might want to see if User:Cuchullain, has an opinion. I was also going to suggest contacting Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, but I see you have already done that. Let's keep the communication going. Katr67 18:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, my contact to that wikiproject really had nothing to do with the above issue, but rather had to do with renaming a couple of the state categories, particularly California and Virginia, which have names in a different format from the rest of the similar categories. - TexasAndroid 19:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Yep, I see that now. I was going to revise my post, but too late. Anyway, you might want to ask about this there too. Katr67 19:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I didn't object to eliminating membership in "grandparent" categories (like "Native American tribes"). I didn't revert TexasAndroids's numerous other category deletions for California tribes. But the job needs to be done with a little discrimination. "Modoc" is genuinely a first-level subordinate member of the category "California tribes" (as well as the parallel categories for "Native American tribes in Oregon" and "Native American tribes in Oklahoma"). It doesn't make any sense to consider "Modoc" a member of the category "Modoc tribe". The latter category should probably be eliminated, with the individuals listed in it being moved to a section such as "Notable Modoc people" inside the "Modoc" article. Leaving the reader of "Modoc" with only "Modoc tribe" as a category link isn't helpful. Any other primary articles on Native California groups should also keep their "California tribe" category memberships, although deleting "North American tribes" is perhaps okay. (Although even that is perhaps debatable. The number of distinct ethnolinguistic groups in Native North America is large, but not that large. A reader might very well appreciate being able to browse through a category listing of all those groups, rather than just seeing a depleted list of the ones that haven't yet been grouped into a state category, or having to choose an individual state listing to look at. But that's another issue.) RhymeNotStutter 02:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I think that in some way we may have to agree to disagree. You have a vision of how you think categories should work that IMHO is in conflict with the project policy of how they do work. Big, overloaded categories, like Category:Native American tribes was before I started working on it are discouraged. The guidelines for category use specifically encourage pushing articles down into the sub-categories in order to prevent having huge categories like the one you say people might want to see. I'm not going to argue how things should be. That's a discussion for the talk page of the categorization policy.
OTOH, I am also not going to get into an edit war over this. It is far from worth it. My time is much, much better spent working on more clean-up. I got the Category:Native American tribes category down to around 140 articles yesterday, and it would be nice if I can give the remaining articles at least a once over each before I head for holiday. At the current rate, I'm guessing I should be able to get the category under 50 entries when I'm done. The remainder will likely just need to stay, as some I cannot see from the article easily where to move it, and some would need to be in a large number of state sub-cats to be effectively moved, at which point the cure becomes worse than the problem. - TexasAndroid 14:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Architect Timothy Bailey

I suppose it's Timothy; his brother Willy referred to him as Timmy; both were from Redding and had a parallel life in Quesnel, British Columbia where their mother works; through her they are descendants of Kintpuash and Willy was a friend of mine - I know this isn't a social networking site but if a Modoc happens to know Willy I'd almost say he's notable too, although his career in Saudi royal security I guess isn't a matter of public record/newsworthiness. But from what I know about Tim, he was possibly notable as a Native American professional - a rising architect whose death at the hands of some State Troopers on the "back way" through Idaho/Eastern Washington to California from Quesnel outraged Willy whenever he talked about it (he maintained his brother was targeted for being too successful); not sure how "high" Timmy got in architecture, but if there's someone who knows this story has legs please write it up; I haven't heard from Willy in years but in respect for his friendship and what he taught me about the Modoc people and Captain Jack I'd like to honour the family by at least proposing that a bio of Timmy be written, if he's suitably notable; their mother Sharon Bailey may also be, for all I know (I don't know here even though I'm in BC).Skookum1 18:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)