Talk:Modern Standard Hindi/Archive 4

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Contents

Classification

we need to be clear, for the purposes of the infobox, do we mean

  • "Hindi" as defined by Ethnologue (Central zone, Western Hindi; 180 M speakers)
  • "Hindi" as defined by the 1991 census (includes Central, Western and Northern zone dialects, 337 M speakers)

The 2001 census was probably the last one to work with that inclusive definition of "Hindi", and with the recognition of Bihari as independent languages, the percentage of "Hindi speakers" in India will fall from 40% to about 25%.

Since "Hindi" according to SIL is really just Khariboli, I suppose this should be about the wider definition. But we have to be very clear about the issues involved. "Hindi" (and "Hindustani") in this sense is not a Central zone language, but a macrolanguage composed of disparate dialects, selected for political, not linguistic reasons. dab (�) 12:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good question to me. But please note that no one seems to be looking at the talk page of this article except me (and maybe others posting a question). I wish I could say something knowledgeable about this.
I also am tempted to think this is about the macrolanguage ("Hindi" as defined by the 1991 census). But in that case, I think (like you?) that we would have to account for the many varieties of Hindustani/Hindi, their similarities and their differences (Chhattisgarhi vs. Bihari vs. Khariboli vs. Braj Bhasha...vs. Rajasthani dialects? etc.). But I currently have very little idea about the variety between these dialects, since I'm not a native-speaker of Hindi, have not looked thoroughly at Grierson's resources, and have never been north of Chennai! :( --Kuaichik 04:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

this is a bit like German language vs. Standard German or Arabic language vs. Literary Arabic. Viz., information on the grammar etc. of the standard dialect should go to Khariboli while at this article, we should sketch the nature of Hindi as a pluricentric or macrolanguage. dab (�) 14:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Not a bit but exactly like Arabic, which is said to be "spoken" in such a huge region but whose dialects change so dramatically. While discussing Hindi grammar, stick to standard Hindustani grammar and everything which has been accepted as the social standard. Instead there is a separate article called Hindi languages where you can discuss the differences you are talking about. Maquahuitl 01:49, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Good bye

Alvida for good bye Are you sure that alvida is not a urdu word. I think that namste is used to say good bye Yourdeadin 11:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)Yourdeadin

Do you think that Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna is an "Urdu" movie? Or do you just think alvida strictly means "farewell"? I'll admit that I myself am not familiar with that word; I am not a native-speaker of Hindustani, but to me it seems that the word for "goodbye" used most often by Hindustani-speaking Muslims is xudaa haafiz (from Persian/Farsi). (I say "Hindustani" as I personally believe the line between spoken Hindi and spoken Urdu is, at best, very blurred. I also think you could consider that expression to be either Hindi or Urdu, depending on how you define those language names.) --Kuaichik 23:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I have added Khudá Hafiz (ख़ुदा हाफ़िज़) to the list of phrases for goodbye. With regards, AnupamTalk 00:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Are, shukria, John Sahib! It's really nice to see someone else look at the talk page for once. Personally, I think this article has gone from not even "good (GA)" to worse.
Anyway, having looked again at the list of common phrases, I noticed something else: the explanation for tu. It says that tu is "used intimately." But I think perhaps it might be more accurate to say that tu is used (almost?) exclusively in (songs and) poetry. I mean, you wouldn't really use that word in spoken/conversational Hindustani (or Hindi/Urdu), would you? I could be entirely wrong, of course, but I'm just asking. --Kuaichik 02:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Koi baat nahi hai! Yes, lately I've noticed that a lot of the article has been vandalized and important content has been supplanted with opinion. Three WikiProjects have given the article a "B" class rating. Tu (तू تو) is similar to the Thou tense in English. It is used in poetry, songs, religious texts (see this), and with lovers. However, it can also be derogatory when used in a certain manner (see here). But yes, it is not used ordinarily when talking to someone else. In most cases Tum (तुम تم) is used when talking informally or Aap (आप آپ) when talking formally (or when speaking with elders). Regarding the article, do you think it would be appropriate to include colloquial Hindustani words like shukria (शुक्रीया) along with standard Hindi words like Dhanyavád (धन्यवाद) even though they might not be standard Hindi? I look forward to hearing from you soon. With regards, AnupamTalk 03:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Mere xayaal se: Haa'n, bilkul! If ख़ुदा हाफ़िज counts as Hindi, why not शुक्रीया, which (I find) is used by both Hindus and Muslims? I highly doubt that most "Hindi"-speakers realize that that word is a cognate of the Arabic shukran.

However, I would also advise against putting up too many expressions in that little box; it might overwhelm those who speak no Hindustani at all. Anyhow, that's what I think. By the way, is "John" your last name? If so, we have the same surname! LOL! --Kuaichik 06:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind reply! I will go ahead and add shukria to the list and will refrain from cluttering the table ;). With regards, AnupamTalk 06:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
शुक्रीया/شکریہ :-D --Kuaichik 04:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Bangladesh?!

OK, I know I said Hindi is spoken in Pakistan and Nepal. I have no objection if it is an official language of Fiji. But Bangladesh?? No need to go overboard here! If you're going to include Bangladesh, you might as well include Guyana, Suriname, Mauritius, the US... --Kuaichik 01:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Similarly, why is the language code for Nepali included here as a code for a dialect of Hindi?! As far as I know, at least, Nepali is officially considered a separate language from Hindi - by the governments of India AND Nepal. --Kuaichik 22:23, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Now Trinidad & Tobago and Guyana, too! Like I said: No need to go overboard!! --Kuaichik 01:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

you are right, Nepali is listed by mistake. dab (�) 17:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, but there is still that stupid problem of all the countries. That huge list of countries has been around for too long; if anyone objects, they really should discuss it here, and no one has objected here in nearly two weeks! So I'm taking it out now. --Kuaichik 22:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Indian Scouting

Can someone please render Taiyar (Be Prepared), the Scout Motto, into Hindi? Thanks! Chris 15:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

तत्पर(tatpar), उद्यत (udvat) are two equivalents. apurv1980 13:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Need Hindi

Need Hindi script for Jal tarang. Badagnani 02:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Done, AnupamTalk 02:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

IPA

Can someone come up with good examples of ʈ, ɖ, ɽ in Hindi words that Brits and Yanks might be familiar with, to illustrate the examples at Help:IPA pronunciation key? Thanks. kwami 20:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I added harder and kart as the closest sounds in English words to the retroflex consonants. But I'm not a linguist, someone please check. Come to think of it, harder seems closer to ɽ to me than the example, but of course, that sound just doesn't exist in English. - Taxman Talk 00:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

HINDI IS NOT

an Indo-European language spoken all over India in varying degrees.

Actually, Hindi is spoken only in the following states - Himachal Pradesh, Haryana, Delhi, Rajasthan, Uttaranchal, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, Chhatisgarh, Jharkhand. It is a lingua franca in Arunachal Pradesh and Andaman & Nicobar Islds. People in W. India (Maharashtra + Guj) manage a little bit of Hindi. But what about the South, the N.E. and Bengal?? Hindi is not spoken in any of these states. Therefore, I doubt if the phrase all over India is suitable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.156.156 (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Need Hindi script

Surbahar needs Hindi script. Badagnani 05:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Subdivision of Hindi in ISO-639

The info box gives the erroneous suggestion that Hindi is a macro-language. It is not. GerardM 13:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Hindi can mean both- as a standard and as a group. The confusions arise due to conflict between linguistics and politics. Maquahuitl 01:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Hindi, as the official language of India, is a register of Urdu, which in turn is one of a chain of dialects, many of which are also called Hindi. What a mess, but of course you can't be honest and say that Hindi is Urdu, nor that Urdu is Hindi. kwami (talk) 00:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)