Talk:Mobile phones and driving safety

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[edit] 'Attention' vs 'Distraction'

It seems to me that "attention" or "attentional load" would be a more meaningful term to use than "distration" which is used throughout. I'm not in the frame of mind for a major rewrite though, I have other things to do. Perhaps recent contributors might consider?

Some sort of universal ban on "attentional overload" activities at intersections seems appropriate. The worst offense is to talk (and/or just listen) while turning left across oncoming traffic. From my observations, drivers who try to do this, often fail to check cross traffic from the right--even once. This article needs more information--and citing of studies regarding unsafe operation during increased attentional loads. [Maybe, the FAA has something--they ban all cockpit (personal and social) conversations below 10,000 ft MSL] Stephen Lord at the University of New South Wales has done considerable research on reaction times--but on the specialized group, pertaining to falls in the elderly. 207.178.98.26 (talk) 19:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cell Phone Use While Driving

I agree with this article and believe that using cell phones in a car while driving is dangerous, you lose your focus and cause trouble. Most times the bad drivers are people speaking on the phone while driving. If you need to talk on the phone—like if you get lost or can’t find some place you need to be at—have another person in the car talk for you. By no means, should you use your cell phone for friendly chats while driving in the car.

I agree that talking to a passenger while driving has the possibility of being as dangerous as using a cell phone. However, unlike a cell phone, there aren't distactions like if the phone cuts out for a split second and you ahve to make the person repeat what they say, you have both hands on the wheel(as with a hands free device), and you don't have the distaction of looking for your cellphone if you drop it. Most improtantly, however, you have an extra set of eyes watching the road, and your passenger can warn you of something if you aren't paying attention. if your talking on a phone, that's taken away. Vandalism destroyer (talk) 20:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I merged this with Cell phones and driving because this page has the most information already on it. Hope everybody is happy with the results. There might be some repetition of studies that I have missed, but i need to do some work now! Famousdog 14:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. --Nunquam Dormio 19:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crashes

Drivers in the Czech Republic, France, and the Netherlands may use cell phones but can be fined if they are involved in crashes while using such a device.

Is this a specific thing in law? In New Zealand, as I suspect in many countries, you can of course be fine or charged for careless, dangerous or reckless driving (or similar offences in other countries) for your involvement in an accident. Obviously if have an accident because you were talking on a mobile phone you will usually be fined and/or charged as appropriate. However there is nothing specific related to mobile phone use while driving. If there is nothing specific in these countries either, I wonder if they should be removed and a general statement about how people may be fined and/or charged under general laws if they are at fault (at least partially) in an accident due to mobile phone use. Nil Einne 13:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation is to be needed

When making a claim, the article should cite references to support it.

On the first paragraph "Several studies have shown that motorists have a much higher risk of collisions and losing control of the vehicle while talking on the mobile telephone simultaneously with driving, even when using "hands-free" systems."

I have no doubt about correlation between road accidents with hand-held system. However, I believe that with the hands-free system, the effect will be dramatically reduced. If the author doesn't agree, then make the claim with sound references to conveince readers.

If the hands-free system is not safe enough, it will equall saying that drivers are not allowed to talk on their move. So far, I have not seen any regulations which ban driver's talking when driving. If the author try to raise the issue of the problems from other aspects, such as the other safety contributions from road designs, dirver's driving behavior, traffic signal controll etc, then make the claim conditional. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.52.66.10 (talk) 03:23, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

The above comment is wrong on several points and now out-of-date regarding citations. The "talking while driving" comment has been addressed - there are good reasons why talkiing to somebody who is in the car with you is NOT dangerous, while talking to somebody who isn't present IS. The passenger can look out for other dangers, can regulate their conversation according to the situation, while somebody on the other end of a phone line cannot. This effects hands-free systems as well as handheld. Famousdog 13:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag

I don't understand why there is a cleanup tag on this page. The article seems reasonably tidy and consice to me. If nobody objects, I'd like to remove it. Famousdog 13:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] status in israel

Israeli law does not prohibit usage of phone while driving - given that it's not hand held (earphone or handsfree kits are OK). 99.232.203.75 19:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major rewrite of article

I just rewrote the first part of this article. I've been digging up all the studies I could find on this issue, and everything I added is well referenced. I think this is a big step in the right direction. (The previous version referenced Mythbusters, for crying out loud.)

To Do - for me, although help is appreciated:

  • Rewrite the introduction. I'm having a brain fart on how to make it a better summary of the article.
  • Incorporate some of the other simulation studies
  • Finish the Other Studies section; what I have there now is just a placeholder
  • Hands-Free:
    • Remove unnecessary refs (to news reports vice studies) and replace with good ones
    • Trim down to only verifiable statements

I haven't even looked at the legislation section; that may need a little love, too. Aron.Foster (talk) 01:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

And if someone could double check me on all the links and refs, I'd be most appreciative. Aron.Foster (talk) 02:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Ummm. Couple of comments. The 'illegalization' section just seems to repeat what's in 'legislation' in a different way... and 'illegalization' is a horrible word! Famousdog (talk) 16:35, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing my spelling and NPOV mistakes. I'll try and pay more attention when I'm writing. I agree; the illegalization list isn't needed. When I reached that part I was going to take the opportunity to verify what's in the Legislation section before I deleted it. I'll probably get to it within a week or two, unless you want to do the work for me. ;) Aron.Foster (talk) 01:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Alright, my rewrite of the Increased Risk section is complete. I think what was there before was far below Wikipedia standards, and what I've added is a big step in the right direction. I read a lot of studies, and what's in the article now is, I think, a good summary of the different types and conclusions those studies have reached. I am a little concerned about Dr. David Strayer, since his job (as he describes it on his university webpage here) is to prove that using cell phones is dangerous while driving (WP:NPOV). But, from what I've read, his science seems pretty legit and he's been open to peer review - that's why I included his studies in the page. Aron.Foster (talk) 04:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

In regards to Beksters' addition on 6 Jan, the paper was cited as saying that other studies "concluded that cell phones produce a four-fold increase in relative crash risk." In the report, the other studies are Redelmeier and Tibshirani 1997—a Canadian Case-Crossover study already referenced—and Strayer's 2003 Simulation Study, also already referenced. Also note the last line of Beksters' study's abstract: "None of the additional analyses produces evidence for a positive link between cellular use and vehicle crashes", counter to the point Beksters was attempting to make with the study. As for including this study elsewhere in the page,

Using a double difference estimator which uses the era prior to price switching [of discounted night/weekend calls] as a control...

I (or someone else) could make a new section on this type of study, but I'm not sure if it would add to the article or just add clutter. Community thoughts? Aron.Foster (talk) 23:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, to-do list for me; help is appreciated:

  • Find some better studies on texting/driving
  • Include some discussion on why not to ban phones/driving, taking into account WP:NPOV and WP:FRINGE
  • Clean the legislation section
    • Put the list of countries into an easy to read list
      • If the Legislation section grows enough, consider putting the list of countries in a wikitable aligned to the right, with the prose on the left
    • Add to the discussion of laws, including effectiveness of legislation, different fines, etc.

Aron.Foster (talk) 01:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not good written

There is criticism that tells that it is not at all dangerous driving and tanking, if you are driving at a highway, it will only keep the driver awake. Why are there no critisicm included in this article? Wikipeia should express both sides of a subjetc. Oggedogge (talk) 08:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Not good written? Speak for yourself. Famousdog (talk) 14:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I too was concerned that we didn't have enough in this article about "driving and tanking". Oggedogge, please link to a study that says what you claim and I'll make sure it gets its deserved attention in the article. Or, you know, you could add it yourself. Aron.Foster (talk) 13:50, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean "driving and tanking"? I tried googling the term and got nothing. If you mean "driving and talking" then this is addressed in the article already. Talking to a passenger is not as distracting as having a mobile phone conversation because they can see when the situation requires the driver's attention and can keep quiet (talking to a passenger is also probably safer thanks to the extra pair of eyes!). Famousdog (talk) 19:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, bad joke at the expense of Oggedogge. "Driving and talking" was (I thought) obviously intended, but in the original post Oggedogge instead complains about "driving and tanking". Aron.Foster (talk) 21:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Needs pictures

Hands-free kit in SAAB 9-5

Texting on a keyboard phone

Some possibilities I've found in the common's above, but if anyone has a better picture of a hands-free device that's what we really need. Bluetooth, corded, perhaps multiple devices in one picture. Aron.Foster (talk) 02:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-driver passengers as bad as a phone?

The argument about passengers being able to regulate their conversation with the perceived level of danger only properly applies to passengers who are experienced drivers. Certainly my experience is that non-drivers will blithely keep talking even as a situation escalates into something very dangerous, and where you need to be quiet and concentrate...